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SpongeBob
Advanced Member
USA
679 Posts |
 Posted - 09/12/2006 : 12:17:09
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PP, for what it is worth... why don't you go back to the Sponge's very first ever post on this board -- October 6, 2004...
(Twilight Zone sound effect...) "The question to ask is whatever happened to the huge lot we were promised at I95 and Rte. 234? I went to a public discussion on it in mid-2001, and VDOT's rep said they would do it, even that they HAD to do it. Now look, they are building a conference center there (like that'll ever work!)
The pressure on Horner comes from four things:
1. PWC population has grown from 280,813 in 2000 to estimated (by PWC) 341,077 people. That is 61,000 in less than four years.
2. New home construction has been concentrated along the I-66 and I-95 corridors, but the I-95 corridor is zoned for greater density.
3. Stafford and Fredericksburg are growing almost as fast as PWC, and if you travel north driving solo, the first regular back-up you come to is around Horner Road.
4. The BIG PROBLEM is that NOT ONE SINGLE COMMUTER PARKING SPACE has been constructed on the eastern end of the county since the expansion of the 234 lot back in 2000/2001. NOT ONE! Yet we add tens of thousands of people.
It's only going to get worse."
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OK. Got anything NEW to add, PP?
We're all so glad you're here to tell us that the problem is growth. Whodathunkit?
Don't go crying to mommy about the bullies, please.  |
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N_or_S_bound
Advanced Member
649 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 09:54:47
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PP,
Your stated reasons do seem to indicate a bit of selfish interest and not the altruistic motives you have wished to rightly claim as your rationale for buying a hybrid. The admission of SOV in HOV lanes as a reason for purchasing only serves to further reveal who you REALLY ARE and not who you'd like to view yourself as being.
It is really simple, but those who buy hybrids would like to think otherwise (so they can continue to think they are "holier-than-thou"), more cars on the road equals more congestion. Not just on the roads, but in the parking lots. SOV equals more cars on the road. Most who aren't blinded by false claims in order to make themselves feel better, get that. Those who don't see that, won't get it.
NoSUV has finally arrived to the point where even his somewhat salient points early on are completely lost in the latest attempts to attribute congestion to HOV.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care! |
Edited by - N_or_S_bound on 09/13/2006 09:55:53 |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 11:45:50
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Actually, I remain firm in my belief that all new vehicles should be either hybrids or alternate fuel. At the same time, our regular lanes are clogged, and slugging has been around for a few decades. We need to follow the path from where we are to where we need to be, and the answer is that either the legislature needs to limit what can be sold in the region (has to be national or else people will just go to a different state to make their purchase) or find an incentive to guide consumer decisions. I, for one, prefer for those incentives to NOT be taxpayer based.
Toll roads are a possible solution with hybrid/CSF exemption and the revenue generated going to subsidize public transportation (take an express bus to/from current slug line for $1/trip).
Nearly every week there's another article about the affects of global warming, and every other week an article about dwindling fuel supplies. And still, how many of you have purchased a vehicle within the last 5 years that isn't a hybrid/CSF? Would your purchasing decision been different if you couldn't get into the express lanes unless you were in one? |
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SpongeBob
Advanced Member
USA
679 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 12:24:55
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No one really disagrees that hybrids are, by and large, "better" for the environment than regular vehicles. One day, most vehicles in this country will use some form of the hybrid engine, and that will be a good thing.
But it does not necessarily follow that the government should therefore promote solo driving over carpooling, or create a special class of privileges for those who can afford the latest technology.
Nor do we need the government to guide consumer decisions. Hybrids are being advertised all over the TV, if you haven't noticed. Even Clinton bought one. He didn't need a carpool-lane exemption as incentive, either.
Unlike you, there are some hybrid buyers who do it for unselfish reasons. And others for whom the gas savings is reason enough. |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 12:40:59
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by SpongeBob[/i]
[br]
Unlike you, there are some hybrid buyers who do it for unselfish reasons. And others for whom the gas savings is reason enough.
It's not the hybrid buyers who are the problem, Sponge. It's the non-hybrid buyers!
How do we get EVERYONE to buy a hybrid over a conventional vehicle, Sponge? |
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n/a
deleted
632 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 13:04:50
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So, NoSUV, you say everyone else is the problem? NoSUV is sane and the rest of the world is crazy? Sounds like you need to get a new shrink! Just because everyone does not do as you do, does not make us wrong. NoSUV, the problem with your hybrid is there is a loose nut behind the wheel!
Not only is your assertion incorrect, it is just plain lunacy! First, hybrids are not the only choice in our search for solutions. Second, hybrids have their own set of problems (detailed in previous posts). Third, it is not reasonable to assume that EVERYONE will do any one thing. Fourth, for a solution to earn widespread adoption, it must require as little change in established habits as possible. The additional costs associated with hybrids makes that inprobable. Take away all the incentives and hybrids will disappear like you do when confronted with reason.
BTW, this is America, and we have a little thing here called freedom of choice (look it up). Anyone who asserts that EVERYONE should do anything is either a communist of an idiot. Which are you? Your comments are obvious attempts to inflame, and they have. Like fuel for any a reasonable position, your arguments go up in smoke! |
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Bob
Moderator
781 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 13:14:20
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NoSUV through his troll alter egos, wants to open up HOV to HOV2 regular cars, then keep the hybrid exemption for SOV hybrids. OF course that screws the HOV3 and slugging. Then he says that everyone should be hybrid, presumably eventually with HOV also. Sorry, but if you implemented hybrid+HOV, the utilzation of HOV lanes would plummet. That negates his argument that we need more utilization of the HOV lanes.
He is just spewing garbage because he has been trashed so many times. |
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N_or_S_bound
Advanced Member
649 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 13:49:10
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Easy Raymond. That was a decent post by NoSUV. There are good points to be made.
As to my purchasing decisions (I'm not seeking affirmation, but seeking to illuminate the "why" as to currently owned vehicles)....
I believe in having less debt in my budget. That is sound from any number of perspectives. Most reliable financial advisors would suggest not carrying vehicle debt. My vehicles are paid for.
I have a 2000 and a 2001 vehicle. The 2000 gets an average of 28 mpg combined hwy/city driving. The 2001 is a truck which gets used regularly as a truck (e.g. not a pretty boy city SUV crossgender vehicle). It only gets 18 if I pay attention to my driving habits.
The 2000 vehicle has 126K on it. It's only about one-third of the way thru it's lifecycle in my estimation. The 2001 has 79K and will make it a good many years beyond the 2000...working as a truck.
Paid for vehicles, even getting less mileage, still in the prime of their service life, make a pretty strong case for me to be able to do plenty else with my dollars--some selfishly and some spent less selfishly.
By the time these vehicles come to their time for the boneyard, there will be technologies (maybe gas/elec hybrid) that are viable and helpful to any number of "problems" claimed and proven. The technologies will be proven by that point too. A question comes up though: should one then buy "old" hybrid technology or pay top dollar for "unproven" technologies that will emerge in about 10 years? Quite the quandry for one who doesn't believe in constantly feeding the "marketing monsters" that are out there telling us what we need or should have. Guilt is an interesting marketing tool that many are going to start using since there is a slow-down in the marketplace that is on the horizon (if not already here). PP even mentioned that in a previous post concerning slowing hybrid sales.
Glad to see this thread return to more redeeming and cordial dialogue.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care! |
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SpongeBob
Advanced Member
USA
679 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 14:50:36
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I assert that some evolved form of the hybrid engine will eventually crawl out of the primoridal ooze and reign supreme in the final days of the combustion engine.
Exhibit A would be the ads we saw during the Redskins'  game -- the ads for the new Lexus RX300h, with the "h" for hybrid.
Toyota didn't make that ad because of carpool lane access.
They think you will buy the vehicle, as they say in the ad itself, to save gas and be a little better for the environment.
NoSUV, you failed, again, to get my point: there are incentives at work beyond what the government need do.
Gas prices alone make hybrids more attractive on the dealer lot.
Climate change fears drive some purchases.
And others, like my best friend, hate the impact of Big Oil on the global political scene, so they'll do anything to fight it.
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Edited by - SpongeBob on 09/13/2006 14:52:57 |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 15:01:18
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by raymond[/i]
[br]So, ... Just because everyone does not do as you do, does not make us wrong. ...
... First, hybrids are not the only choice in our search for solutions. Second, hybrids have their own set of problems (detailed in previous posts). Third, it is not reasonable to assume that EVERYONE will do any one thing. Fourth, for a solution to earn widespread adoption, it must require as little change in established habits as possible. The additional costs associated with hybrids makes that inprobable. Take away all the incentives and hybrids will disappear ...
BTW, this is America, and we have a little thing here called freedom of choice (look it up). Anyone who asserts that EVERYONE should do anything is either a communist of an idiot. ...
raymond - all of what you say can also be applied to slugs.
"Just because ..." - yep, same for slug system.
"First...not the only solution." - same for slug system.
"Second...problems." Actually, the problems cited about hybrids have been debunked. The problems with the slug system remain (as does the 2nd worst congestion EVEN THOUGH (or is it because) of the region using informal car pools.
"Third..." - still same for slug system.
"Forth..." - actually, the slug system is MORE of a change from standard norms. That's one of the reasons no other area really uses it.
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n/a
deleted
632 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 15:33:41
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| Like playing tennis against a wall. The bonehead responses just keep coming back. No reason, no sense, no direction, they just bounce back. Yep, NoSUV is a communist and an idiot. |
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PennyPrius
Junior Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 23:14:28
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three pages back I said that if we exempt one group, (motorcycles) and another, cops, where do we draw the line. Some of you said motorcycles are a safety reason. That sounds good to me too. Hybrid exemptions sound good to me as well since they ease some of the congestion on the non-HOV lanes. We can go round and round on this and still come up with the same answer. Things need to change and soon.
And, please don't tell me that slugs are so environmentally concious. I don't buy it for a minute. Sure some are, just as hybrid owners may be, but some others do it for other reasons. Lack of parking, lack of extra vehicles, convenience, not liking to drive, and the list goes on. So don't try to tell me that slugs are good and hybrid SOV's are bad. I don't buy it for a minute.
And finally, do you think repeatedly calling me a troll has an impact on what I think or say? Oh, it does, but not about slugging or the hybrid issue, just about some of the immature morons who poplulate this planet. BTW, you know who you all are. I would imagine you are the same jerks I see out and about in stores and other public venues that are oblivious to the rest of the world and only think about themselves. I see them every day on my job as well.
<==========not a troll, never was, never will be. |
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scottt
Moderator
415 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 09:41:17
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by NoSUV[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by SpongeBob[/i]
[br]
Unlike you, there are some hybrid buyers who do it for unselfish reasons. And others for whom the gas savings is reason enough.
It's not the hybrid buyers who are the problem, Sponge. It's the non-hybrid buyers!
How do we get EVERYONE to buy a hybrid over a conventional vehicle, Sponge?
I'd buy one if you'd give me the $8000 more it would cost to get one (over the car I purchased). |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 10:00:16
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| scottt - ah, a taxpayer financed incentive, you say. Can you think of a non-taxpayer incentive that will get you to buy a hybrid? |
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scottt
Moderator
415 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 09:16:38
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by NoSUV[/i]
[br]scottt - ah, a taxpayer financed incentive, you say. Can you think of a non-taxpayer incentive that will get you to buy a hybrid?
Sure, lower the price of the Hybrid. I didn't have the extra $8k in 2005 (when I got my car) to get a Hybrid, and I don't have it now.
And I wasn't asking for a taxpayer incentive. I was asking you to cough up the $8,000. |
Edited by - scottt on 09/15/2006 09:17:28 |
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Tired of choking on hybrid fumes
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