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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2008 : 16:35:53
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quote:
Originally posted by mdog
NoSUV, no it's you who's refusing to face the facts: hybrids are not 5x more efficient than comparable cars. Even more, hybrids efficiency is a function of diminishing returns, and the bigger/heavier the hybrid, the less it's advantage with a comparable non-hybrid car. Good example - Lexus LS. Stop comparing your Prius to a Hammer. Compare it with Focus, Chevy Cobalt, Nissan Versa. Compare their mileage @ 60-70 MPG. The real one, not 'EPA estimate'. A Cobalt with 3 occupants does at least twice smaller damage to the environment than 3 hybrids. Plain and simple.
mdog - as usual, you are wrong. I used The Washington Post for my source. What did you use?
It's not about the MPG, but the emissions. A Cobalt is far, far worse than 3 hybrids with it's emissions - it needs to be HOV-5 to keep up with one!
It's just a nice benefit that the hybrid ALSO gets great mileage.
Please, mdog, find some reputable source for your spoutings. |
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mdog
Average Member
67 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 16:48:58
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Stop embarassing yourself. Just stop. Go to the DOE site and check the auto data:
Carbon Footprint
Prius - 4.1 tonns
Focus - 5.6 tonns
Cobalt - 5.9 tonns
And just to prove the diminishing returns:
Lexus LS 460 - 7.7 tonns
Lexus LS 600h - 8.3 (!) tonns - more than non-hybrid version
And so you understand the validity of the WP writers:
Hammer H3 - 11.4 (which is less than 3 times more than Prius)
If you want me to embarass you more, keep quoting WP and other "papers". We'll all laugh. |
Edited by - mdog on 07/05/2008 16:59:31 |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 07:37:25
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mdog,
Please enlighten all of us with which of those vehicles qualified for Clean Special Fuel plates by VDOT.
Now, let's review the REAL statistics:
NOx (that's nitrogen oxide) in grams/mile:
Light duty hybrid: .02
Passenger car: .10
Light duty truck 2: .30 (like Jeep Cherokee, Dodge Caravan)
Light duty truck 4: .60 (like Ford F-150, Land Rover)
Heavy duty truck: .90 (like Hummer)
Now, perhaps you can do the simple math and try to divide .9 by .02 and let us know if you come up with a different number than 45.
Keep trying mdog - you just embarrass yourself.
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mdog
Average Member
67 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 11:46:49
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| And the source of these numbers is - let me guess - washington post? good job! Take that, Government agencies! |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 16:47:03
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And where do you suppose they got it from?
Or are you one of those wing nuts who believes that all of the statistics in the Post are made up? |
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MDC
Moderator
638 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 15:54:45
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Here's an article on air pollution and includes a discussion on N2O NO and NO2. Since we are discussing NOx and not nitrous oxide, please try to focus on that part of the article.
"Nitrogen dioxide is generally not considered a pollutant because it is not toxic and usually not produced by humans." That's NO2
"no evidence of NO damage has ever been seen outside the laboratory."
http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/society/pollution.htm
And, FYI, my 1991 Acura Integra had it's emissions tested several times and the result was .01 for NOx.
Why you bring up NOx when someone else discusses CO2 levels from Hybrids and non-hybrids is beyond me. |
Edited by - MDC on 07/10/2008 07:46:04 |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2008 : 09:36:51
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The article I have from WP 6/24/07 page C2 says that "[Nitrogen Oxide] combne[s] with hydrocarbons to form ground-level ozone."
The article also reports on Code Orange, Red and Purple days, and states "The main concerns in the Washington area are levels of fine particles and ozone. In summer ozone is the main concern." And later "Care emissions account for a little more than a third of ozone."
It discusses the 3 factors that determine how much vehicles pollute:
- type/weight
- age
- speed
Finally,
"In Virginia, solo hybrid drivers are allwoed to use HOV lanes, a perk that annoys many carpoolers who think hybrids clog the lanes and defeat one of the primary purposes of carpooling: getting more people in fewer cars to cut down on pollution. Three people in one car is better than three people in three hybrids, they reason. They may be right as far as congestion goes, but not on air quality." |
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n/a
deleted
632 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 15:24:10
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Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.
Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda? |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 16:22:42
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quote:
Originally posted by raymond
Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.
Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?
raymond, even better - why don't YOU buy a hybrid and drive? Until then, you will just be another slug snob, even worse, a non-environmental, gas guzzling, self-righteous, freeloading slug snob. |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 20:45:45
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quote:
Originally posted by raymond
Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?
since you have problems reading it at the beginning of the board"
"Hybrids: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV." |
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n/a
deleted
632 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2008 : 11:34:49
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quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
quote:
Originally posted by raymond
Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.
Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?
raymond, even better - why don't YOU buy a hybrid and drive? Until then, you will just be another slug snob, even worse, a non-environmental, gas guzzling, self-righteous, freeloading slug snob.
That's great advice, however I choose not to add to the 15,000,000 new cars that are bought and entered into service each year in the US alone! I choose not to spend $30,000. or more to feed the most destructive industry in the history of mankind, autos. I wouldn't even spend your money on a bandaid, red-herring, marketing-hype, bogus-solution hybrid that, oh yeah, burns good old fossil fuel. Hypocrite! You bought the hype, and it is costing you dearly!
I choose instead to keep my old, used nissan, and park it each morning while I slug, taking yet another car off the road and adding 0% to the smog, fuel consumption, and traffic mess that you add to. And on occasion, I choose to drive and fill up my seats while I take three other cars off the road, and get over 80 MPGs per passenger in my car (vs. maybe 40 passenger MPGs in your SOV hybrid).
Gas guzzling? 80+ passenger MPGs, hmmm, not quite!
Self-righteous? Have you been talking to my wife?
Free-loading? Ask the slugs I gave rides to the other day about that! |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2008 : 12:34:18
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quote:
Originally posted by raymond
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
quote:
Originally posted by raymond
Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.
Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?
raymond, even better - why don't YOU buy a hybrid and drive? Until then, you will just be another slug snob, even worse, a non-environmental, gas guzzling, self-righteous, freeloading slug snob.
That's great advice, however I choose not to add to the 15,000,000 new cars that are bought and entered into service each year in the US alone! I choose not to spend $30,000. or more to feed the most destructive industry in the history of mankind, autos. I wouldn't even spend your money on a bandaid, red-herring, marketing-hype, bogus-solution hybrid that, oh yeah, burns good old fossil fuel. Hypocrite! You bought the hype, and it is costing you dearly!
I choose instead to keep my old, used nissan, and park it each morning while I slug, taking yet another car off the road and adding 0% to the smog, fuel consumption, and traffic mess that you add to. And on occasion, I choose to drive and fill up my seats while I take three other cars off the road, and get over 80 MPGs per passenger in my car (vs. maybe 40 passenger MPGs in your SOV hybrid).
Gas guzzling? 80+ passenger MPGs, hmmm, not quite!
Self-righteous? Have you been talking to my wife?
Free-loading? Ask the slugs I gave rides to the other day about that!
raymond - your discussions has many, many gaps in logic.
You claim that by parking your old, used nissan that you contribute 0% to smog, etc. Yet, you MUST drive that vehicle as a minimum to get to and from the commuter lot - and you likely drive it for other purposes as well. Everytime you have that old, used nissan running you are making the environment far, far worse than if you instead were running a hybird.
Then, you claim that on occasion, you choose to drive that old, used nissan for the entire commute. That means that you are contributing far more that that 0% that you previously claimed, and unless you are carrying 4 passengers, you are making the environment worse than if you commuted SOV with a hybrid.
Get with it, raymond - if you had bought a hybrid with all of the $ you saved being a freeloader, then you'd not only be doing the world a favor by lowering your fuel consumption and bettering the environment, but you'd be saving money over that old, used nissan. |
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scottt
Moderator
415 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 08:25:21
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| Stop poking the @#$%@#$@# troll! |
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n/a
deleted
632 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 08:52:49
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quote:
Originally posted by raymond
Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.
Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?
raymond, even better - why don't YOU buy a hybrid and drive? Until then, you will just be another slug snob, even worse, a non-environmental, gas guzzling, self-righteous, freeloading slug snob.
[/quote]
That's great advice, however I choose not to add to the 15,000,000 new cars that are bought and entered into service each year in the US alone! I choose not to spend $30,000. or more to feed the most destructive industry in the history of mankind, autos. I wouldn't even spend your money on a bandaid, red-herring, marketing-hype, bogus-solution hybrid that, oh yeah, burns good old fossil fuel. Hypocrite! You bought the hype, and it is costing you dearly!
I choose instead to keep my old, used nissan, and park it each morning while I slug, taking yet another car off the road and adding 0% to the smog, fuel consumption, and traffic mess that you add to. And on occasion, I choose to drive and fill up my seats while I take three other cars off the road, and get over 80 MPGs per passenger in my car (vs. maybe 40 passenger MPGs in your SOV hybrid).
Gas guzzling? 80+ passenger MPGs, hmmm, not quite!
Self-righteous? Have you been talking to my wife?
Free-loading? Ask the slugs I gave rides to the other day about that!
[/quote]
raymond - your discussions has many, many gaps in logic.
You claim that by parking your old, used nissan that you contribute 0% to smog, etc. Yet, you MUST drive that vehicle as a minimum to get to and from the commuter lot - and you likely drive it for other purposes as well. Everytime you have that old, used nissan running you are making the environment far, far worse than if you instead were running a hybird.
Then, you claim that on occasion, you choose to drive that old, used nissan for the entire commute. That means that you are contributing far more that that 0% that you previously claimed, and unless you are carrying 4 passengers, you are making the environment worse than if you commuted SOV with a hybrid.
Get with it, raymond - if you had bought a hybrid with all of the $ you saved being a freeloader, then you'd not only be doing the world a favor by lowering your fuel consumption and bettering the environment, but you'd be saving money over that old, used nissan.
[/quote]
I'd be doing Toyota stockholders a favor by buying another product they sell, that's it! No, I think you should just give your money away to those who market the hybrid hype. You bougth into the boondoggle; its a distraction, a band-aid, a red-herring. Hybrids are temporary and they are already obsolete. Go ahead, support the "green marketing" frenzy; like another sheep behind mindlessly hearded to the checkout stand you should buy another hybrid! Its your money to waste! But its not the answer.
The hybrid exemption is illogical and obviously a political attempt to placate auto lobbists. Everyone knows hybrids get their best gas mileage when operating in stop-and-go city traffic, where the electric engine and braking energy recovery result in the highest gas mileage. At freeway speeds, hybrids are no more efficient then any other vehicle because the gas engine is running at full speed to keep up. And while that gas engine is running, I'm pretty sure its burining gas and polluting, and while you are freeloading on the hybrid exemption and driving SOV you are adding to traffic congestion. Congratulations NoSUV, you're a hypocrite!
At least 3 people in EVERY car is the only answer! Learn it, live it, love it. Get to know your fellow commuters for a change. I park my car or I fill up my seats; you need to fill up those empty hybrid seats, NoSUV! Until you do, you are just another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, freeloading, self-righteous, and ignorant SOV snob.
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 11:12:37
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quote:
Originally posted by raymond
quote:
Originally posted by raymond
Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.
Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?
raymond, even better - why don't YOU buy a hybrid and drive? Until then, you will just be another slug snob, even worse, a non-environmental, gas guzzling, self-righteous, freeloading slug snob.
[/quote]
I'd be doing Toyota stockholders a favor by buying another product they sell, that's it! No, I think you should just give your money away to those who market the hybrid hype. You bougth into the boondoggle; its a distraction, a band-aid, a red-herring. Hybrids are temporary and they are already obsolete. Go ahead, support the "green marketing" frenzy; like another sheep behind mindlessly hearded to the checkout stand you should buy another hybrid! Its your money to waste! But its not the answer.
The hybrid exemption is illogical and obviously a political attempt to placate auto lobbists. Everyone knows hybrids get their best gas mileage when operating in stop-and-go city traffic, where the electric engine and braking energy recovery result in the highest gas mileage. At freeway speeds, hybrids are no more efficient then any other vehicle because the gas engine is running at full speed to keep up. And while that gas engine is running, I'm pretty sure its burining gas and polluting, and while you are freeloading on the hybrid exemption and driving SOV you are adding to traffic congestion. Congratulations NoSUV, you're a hypocrite!
At least 3 people in EVERY car is the only answer! Learn it, live it, love it. Get to know your fellow commuters for a change. I park my car or I fill up my seats; you need to fill up those empty hybrid seats, NoSUV! Until you do, you are just another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, freeloading, self-righteous, and ignorant SOV snob.
[/quote]
raymond - just how many times do you have to be proved wrong? Well, let's try yet again.
For years, people like you have claimed hybrids are hype over substance - all without any basis, and always contrary to the facts. Please review other threads here dating back at least 4 years in which you, and others like you, claimed then that it was also "temporary." Nothing could be farther from the truth. As US automakers are shutting down plants and undergoing draconion measures to stay competitive, Toyota is building NEW auto plants here in the US to make HYBRIDS in an attempt to keep up with demand. raymond, every FACT is agaist you and your claims.
"Everyone knows" isn't much on factual analysis, either. Let's try some simple physics, yet again, and see if you can keep up. If the vehicle is at constant velocity, what is the accelleration? Yes, raymond, the answer is zero. Granted, constant velocity is difficult to obtain with friction and wind resistence, but many of we drivers do not floor the accellerator to maintain that constant speed. Every single time you let up on that gas pedal, raymond, what happens differently between that old, used nissan you are so proud of and a hybrid? Simply put, the conventional vehicle continues to pollute and use gas while the hybrid could well have its gas engine shut off - and the battery gets charged to boot! Franky, raymond, what "everyone knows" seems to be a particular stupidity that you alone perpetuate.
And so, you remain far worse than a snob. You thrive on myths and ignore facts. You intentionally worsen the environment as well as worsen our economy by using far more fuel than you could. All for the sake of trying to justify your freeloading lifestyle.
Bottom line, raymond, you are pitiful. |
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Hybrid Owners You took Over HOV now out web site?
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