HOT Lanes - Non-Rush Hour Nightmare?

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   As an example of why dynamic tolling wont work.  The pro HOT crowd believes that a change in toll rate will result in an instant move in or out of the HOT lane.  Wont happen. Reasons: heavy traffic, and limited entry exit points.  Lets say its 6:30 pm and there is some extra capacity in the HOT lane.  The toll is reduced from $1.00 to $.50 per mile.  But, all those people stranded in the regular lane jam will take up to a half hour to make it to the entry point.  

	Dynamic tolling has a major time lag between toll change and traffic change.

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Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Sep 2006 at 12:41pm
	As an example of why dynamic tolling wont work. The pro HOT crowd believes that a change in toll rate will result in an instant move in or out of the HOT lane. Wont happen. Reasons: heavy traffic, and limited entry exit points. Lets say its 6:30 pm and there is some extra capacity in the HOT lane. The toll is reduced from $1.00 to $.50 per mile. But, all those people stranded in the regular lane jam will take up to a half hour to make it to the entry point. Dynamic tolling has a major time lag between toll change and traffic change.

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Sep 2006 at 12:06pm
	Don't think they will reduce the toll "just to improve the regular lanes", BUT they WILL reduce the tolls to pick up some business if their HOT lanes are sitting there idle. They're already paying folks to man it, the roads are already there, why wouldn't they try to grab business with dynamic tolls (a la Kmart blue light special)? Doesn't make sense to not attract vehicles when there's plenty available and at some price, some will pay. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Sep 2006 at 11:47am
	It's going to be changeable or dynamic. But the point I am making is that, almost no matter what it is, the traffic in the non-HOT lanes will be much worse during non-rush because of those who previously took the free HOV lanes will be in the regular lanes. I put forth the proposition that dynamic tolling has severe limitations. Another point is that the HOT company has the goal of maximizing profit. This may in many cases not correspond with maximizing overall corridor throughput. For example, if profit is maximized at $1.00 per mile, do you think Fluor will reduce the toll just to improve the regular lanes?

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Sep 2006 at 11:37am
	It's probably been said before, but I'll ask it just to stimulate this thread some: Are the HOT prices going to be dependent on usage? Or is there just a set fee per mile period? One would think that non-peak hours would receive a reduced price to encourage usage. Supply and demand. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Sep 2006 at 11:24am
	There has been little discussion on this board about the impact of HOT on non-rush hour times. Especially evenings and weekends. Here's the scenario I was thinking about over the weekend. Current situation ---It is 6pm on a weekday. Normally, a massive wave of SOVs heads for the HOV lane because it is opened to them. That lightens the load on the regular lanes. Flash forward to 2009. It is 6pm. Tolls for SOVs are 24/7. Only one-third of the regular SOV crowd opts to pay the $12 it will cost to get home. Result--a MASSIVE jam in the regular lanes.