HOT question: tolls during non-rush hour

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   Yup, I think it could be done.  Just a quick peek led me to wi-fi RFID which could be easily programmed for this type of application.

	Here is an example

	http://www.aeroscout.com/content.asp?page=T2Features

	and here is a how todays todays EZPass (SmartPass)works. I don't see where the current card carries any dynamic information, so it would take an infrastructure upgrade to do what I suggested in my previous message.

	http://www.howstuffworks.com/e-zpass1.htm

	Kindest Regards,

	mroyal

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mroyal Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote mroyal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 4:45pm
	Yup, I think it could be done. Just a quick peek led me to wi-fi RFID which could be easily programmed for this type of application. Here is an example http://www.aeroscout.com/content.asp?page=T2Features and here is a how todays todays EZPass (SmartPass)works. I don't see where the current card carries any dynamic information, so it would take an infrastructure upgrade to do what I suggested in my previous message. http://www.howstuffworks.com/e-zpass1.htm Kindest Regards, mroyal

mroyal Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote mroyal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 4:27pm
	quote: Originally posted by SpongeBob [br]YOU CANNOT CHARGE ONE CAR A TOLL AND NOT CHARGE ANOTHER CAR AT MULTIPLE SMARTTAG LOCATIONS WITH MULTIPLE EXITS. ... AND HOW COULD THEY TELL IF YOU PAID OR NOT? OR HOW MUCH YOU PAID? OR WHEN YOU GOT ON THE TOLLWAY? ... I have given the challenge you describe above (rather loudly for an invertebrate, I must say) some thought and I think it could be done two ways as follows: First way 1. Create separate entry lanes for HOV and HOT. Smart pass the HOT entry lane and have strict enforcement of the HOV entry lane. Give the winning company enforcement authority with some of the very high penalty fees going to the LEO's and some to the company pocket (for enforcement incentive) 2. Forget about trying to enforce on the highway and on the exit ramp. As you say, it's probably not possible without significant infrastructure costs. Secound way I'm sure though, if they really wanted to, technology could be designed similar in concept to the smart cards used on the Metro. Readers could see the time, origination and etc of the HOT vehicle. If they did that and included the readers in in an "easy-pass" environment, you could enforce the exit lanes as well as a single entry lane. You could also have mobile readers in the LEO's for on-highway enforcement. If the LEO can't read the easy-pass, it better have 3 or more persons on board. Disclaimer: This is just an idea - don't know if current technology supports it. p.s. LEO = Law Enforcement Officer Kindest Regards, mroyal

122582 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Apr 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote 122582 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 3:52pm
	I agree with N or S in that I want a shorter commute, but not at any expense. I wouldn't mind HOV 4, but no tolls - ever. I do think if any money is spent, it needs to be on extending the HOV to LadySmith. I zoom down the HOV to 234, then crawl to Rt 3.

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 3:48pm
	quote: Originally posted by Sheepish [br].... admitted it wasn't a guarantee that they would remain free forever. ... ... encourage an increase in HOV-3 ridership ... Ok, 2 snips... Free forever. Ain't gonna happen. Guarantee, another ain't. There may come a time where we pay more to ride certain roads than we currently do. A bit of hyperbole here with words like guarantee and forever (esp when they're together in a sentence). This ain't Craftsman tools we're talking about. Jump on the piece they did offer, increasing HOV-3 ridership. We'd like to do that now. Actually, more accurately increase HOV-4 ridership and remove exemptions. That is a pretty realistic INCREMENTAL step to alleviating current congestion challenges. Don't understand why people can't see that (on both sides of the equation). I do understand that "show me the money" or follow the money should be the theme thought when listening to them. It is all about money. Money to big businesses who are in business to make more money at someone's expense. And money to the political candidates who need funds to win elections. They can be short-sighted enough to only think about their political career. The impact of poor planning decisions now won't come back on most of them while they're still in office. Most of them will be retired on horse farms far away from NoVA and nonethesorrier for leaving things in whatever state this all evolves to. Hybrid drivers (and anyone else who can garner an exemption) are none the purer in their motives. They are in it for the shortterm gain too, even at the evident expense of others in the HOV. I'm not altruistic. I want a shorter commute time for ME! I am willing to "give a little" though and pick up a 3rd rider to reduce the number of vehicles in the HOV should that become the norm. In the immediate, picking up a 3rd does nothing to reduce congestion. Oh yeah, I'm in it for the money too. Someday I may be able to retire to a horse farm far from NoVA as well. Just speaking truth... NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

Sheepish Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2002 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sheepish Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 2:59pm
	Why do you think they continue to tell us that HOV will continue to ride free? They are telling people want they want to hear in order to win the proposal! When pressed by RobertLangDirect, as they were last Thursday night at the PWC Transportation Symposium, each representative admitted it wasn't a guarantee that they would remain free forever. You should have been there to listen as they tried to respond to RLD's point and question (free means free now, forever... how can you guarantee this?) Once they determined that a good portion of the audience was against HOT, they were still quick to always throw in a comment on how HOV would remain free and even noted how this would encourage an increase in HOV-3 ridership when answering questions to the public in attendance. I sat there absolutely baffled that after admitting that there is no gaurantee the lanes would remain ever free... they still kept repeating "it will remain free." Do they think we're idiots? I do not have a business degree, but it's obvious to me--- if the lanes are dominated by free riders-- over time, how do all those new entrances and off ramps, roads.... all that work that's been done get paid for? Hmmm....aren't there are consequences when someone doesn't pay a bill on time?? They'll get the money somehow-- if laws have to be changed in order to get it.. This is a business to Clark and Fluor..... don't ever forget this....If the lanes are clogged and they can't maintain "optimal traffic flow" and do not allow additional cars on the road--- then how does the car of 3+ people get on and utilize the lanes? It will be 'Oops-- sorry, no room for you right now-- we don't have optimal flow because we let on too many paying customers.' And to answer the question as to when construction will start... VDOT still has to decide which proposal or do nothing.

KCWolfPck Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 12 Nov 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote KCWolfPck Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 1:39pm
	My point had nothing to do with technology......I wanted to know what facts you have that show that there will be NO FREE HOV???? You state that like you KNOW it to be true. Please share what you KNOW.

shahedC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote shahedC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 1:13pm
	Stop arguing about the technology, no one is asking for robotic cameras to detect living breathing passengers... let's just focus on what we know. They have told us repeatedly that HOV will continue to ride free. So... I repeat my question: Why would they tell us that HOV will continue to ride free if they had no intention of placing manned toll gates at every entrance/exit?

emancilla Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote emancilla Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 12:19pm
	I would love to see a demostration.

defender Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Location: va Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote defender Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 11:56am
	quote: Originally posted by KCWolfPck [br] quote: Originally posted by SpongeBob [br]THERE WILL BE NO FREE HOV BECAUSE THERE IS NO TECHNOLOGY TO DO IT! You sure do spout out speculation like it really means something. Do you care to back up this statement with facts? Thought not...... Tell me what technology you can use. We'd all love to see a demonstration.

KCWolfPck Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 12 Nov 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote KCWolfPck Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 11:43am
	quote: Originally posted by SpongeBob [br]THERE WILL BE NO FREE HOV BECAUSE THERE IS NO TECHNOLOGY TO DO IT! You sure do spout out speculation like it really means something. Do you care to back up this statement with facts? Thought not......