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Bob
Moderator
781 Posts |
 Posted - 08/22/2006 : 09:00:56
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I think it is ridiculous how polluting some hybrids are when they are accelerating on an entry ramp. I'm sitting there and all of a sudden I can hardly breathe because of the noxious SO2 (rotten egg) fumes. I look up and there is a hybrid (or two or three) in front of me.
If we can't get these things out of the HOV, at least we should force them to meet some exhaust standards. |
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sluDgE
Moderator
1563 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 11:28:10
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Bob,
They need the gas engine to get up to hiway speeds and to charge the batteries. Toyota Prius hybrids run all-electric only below 35 mph; and from what I read, the other manufacturers' gas engines run all the time and are supplemented by the electric when needed.
Do you know of anyone who really likes the smell of rotten eggs?
Those persons may be only the hybrid SOV drivers in the HOV lanes. |
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LDOMAJ
Senior Member Member
145 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 14:31:56
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Rotten egg smell... interesting. Hybrids or inadvertant bodily function? (grin)
I certainly don't profess to be knowledgeable (quite the opposite I'am afraid) on the hybrid vs. regular issues but checked to see how my vehicle faired... I got this off of fuel economy website when compared side-by-side 4 cylinder, 4WD, automatic regular escape to a 4 cylinder 4WD, automatic hybrid. I only had time to look at mine so I cannot say that it is homogeneous with the rest of the community.
Ford Escape Hybrid 6.2 tons annual greenhouse gas emissions
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_SUVs.shtml
Ford Escape 8.2 tons annual greenhouse gas emissions
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 21:52:15
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob[/i]
[br]I think it is ridiculous how polluting some hybrids are when they are accelerating on an entry ramp. I'm sitting there and all of a sudden I can hardly breathe because of the noxious SO2 (rotten egg) fumes. I look up and there is a hybrid (or two or three) in front of me.
If we can't get these things out of the HOV, at least we should force them to meet some exhaust standards.
Bob, according to raymond, what you smelled is impossible since he claims that hybrids use exactly the same energy source as your vehicle. Which of you is wrong? |
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rodmunera
Junior Member
27 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 23:42:46
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The Rotten egg smell on HOV is from hybrids? I thought it was weird, I always assumed that it was some sort of industrial byproduct coming off the Route 1 Corridor. I had no Idea why it seemed to plague the entire length of 395 / 95.
That explains a lot. |
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Bob
Moderator
781 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 08:41:26
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I can expand a little on what I said earlier. First, I have noticed this literally dozens of times, so there is something systematic here with at least some of the hybrids. I think it is mostly with the older Hondas, and may not involve Toyotas, but am not positive.
It happens on acceleration, although I have been at highway speed and noticed it then as well. In some cases it is pure rotten egg, and in other cases it just creates a burning sensation making it hard to breathe. It could be a tune up or computer setting issue, dont know. |
Edited by - Bob on 08/23/2006 08:42:17 |
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Luddite
Senior Member Member
111 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 14:52:25
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I've noticed the smell too. One more time folks...hybrids aren't about the environment or efficiency. They are about riding solo. Sheesh.
Hybrids
Killed
HOV |
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n/a
deleted
632 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 08:51:44
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Bob, You may have been a few cars behind one of those "clean-burning" diesels (do they get special plates too?). I have noticed that they emit an unusual smell similar to the sulphur smell you describe.
Luddite, welcome to the light! You hit the nail on the head, but missed the benefit to the automaker's bottom line. Hybrids are just another product designed to market to people who are environmentally sensitive. Think of it, how in good conscience could anyone work at WWF or Greenpeace and drive a gas-hog (like the rest of us)? Now people can buy a hybrid, feel like they are making a positive difference, and sleep well at night in eco-ignorance.
Folks, hybrids burn gas too! And any gains in MPG are negated by SOV commuting and the future ecological threats of battery disposal. Wake up! Hybrids as ecological salvation is a falacy! Soylent Green is people! |
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PennyPrius
Junior Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 09:46:24
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Had to join this group just because I find it interesting that there are so many concerned citizens wishing to keep things so pure like limiting HOV lanes to vehichles with 3 or more people in them.
I am sure it has been covered before, but please humor me, why is it ok for motorcycles to be in the HOV if they only can carry a maximum of two people? For the purists out there who want to protect the HOV for those that have 3 or more people in them, this seems to be contradictory.
As far as wrotten egg smells, I think there is misinformation out there. I have not smelled that smell coming from hybrids. And besides that, I rarely have my windows open and rarely do I see many cars on the road with windows open. So this smell permeates the a/c system?
This whole concept of taking hybrids out of the HOV seems more sour grapish than anything else.
As far as I am concerned if there is a way to pull a few more cars off the regular lanes without too much inconvenience to anyone else, let it be. Moving traffic efficiently should be the first priority and removing hybrids from HOV is only going to make it worse for the regular folks on the regular side.
I admit, I am not a daily HOV commuter, but often enough to see that there is no real issue with extra traffic because of hybrids in HOV lanes. I think it has been blown out of proportion and your voices were way louder to the legislators than those of the hybrid owners and that is why the laws were modified.
As far as treehugging goes, I bought and drive a hybrid because I thought it was a neat technology and a nice car to drive. It has all the features of a more luxurious car such as navigation, HID headlights, bluetooth,etc. for the price of a normal sedan, and I get upwards of 40 MPG on top of it all. Will I make my money back? I don't even understand what that sentence means. I bought the car because it is what I wanted, which most upwardly mobile people do. I don't think I paid a premium, I think I got a good deal and a great car.
Where is the outrage for drivers who consistently break the law by not using directional signals? That urks me more than any other single issue in driving. A few extra cars in a HOV lane does not tweak me at all compared to the lack of courtesy on the roads, including use of directionals which isn't even a courtesy, it is a law!
And BTW, where is the outrage for the exemption for Law Enforcement Officers being able to use the HOV lanes without 3 people? Why should they be expempt? Why not let trash collectors and Starbucks workers on too? Afterall, LEO's are just coming/going to work like everyone else.
Thank you......I feel better already. |
Edited by - PennyPrius on 08/25/2006 10:47:11 |
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SpongeBob
Advanced Member
USA
679 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 10:08:56
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The Sponge is going to come out in favor of hybrids. Yes!
Just not a lifetime extension of the HOV privilege.
My best friend bought a Prius in May after reading (yet another) liberal history of the Middle East that left him righteously fuming about U.S./Euro energy policy.
I told him he could use the HOV at his will. He said he could not care less -- he lives in Arlandria and works near Reston, so he already has a reverse commute.
The reason he bought the car is shown by his license plate: F-XOM.
He makes no claims to being super-green, but he is proud of his mileage. When they build a greener car, he'll buy it. Until then, he's doing what he can.
I think there are more people like him out there, and that's a good thing. |
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slugjo
Junior Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 10:20:30
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Hi PennyPrius. WRT motorcycles, it's a safety issue. There aren't enough motorcycles to jam up the express lanes, and there isn't an avalanch of new ones being added every day, like hybrids have been. I ride a motorcycle (not for commuting), and I know that they are a bad vehicle to be on when there is heavy congestion. They are not made for going slow or repeatedly stopping. I think you are right about most of the things you posted. IMHO it is the violators who are most of the congestion problem in the express lanes. Even NoSUV is right about traffic flow on 395, inside the beltway. It moves along just fine, barring accidents. And express lane planning and policy has to be a give & take, with public transportation, HOV, exceptions, etc. We don't need HOT.
p.s. My wife and I call the Prius the "Priapus." (Greek god of fertility, gardening) Go ahead and google him, and look at the pictures. Funny. |
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n/a
deleted
632 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 11:52:04
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Penny, welcome to the discussion. I don't think anyone really hates hybrids, or those who drive them. I have said that I applaud hybrid drivers for taking steps that they feel are positive in addressing the issues.
I think most people on this side of the fence oppose the special treatment regarding the hybrid/HOV exemption. I have detailed several reasons for my opposition of the hybrid exemption including socio-economic discrimination and marketing manipulation/deception by the auto industry.
But we really need to understand the hybrid/HOV issue is more about moving commuters and managing traffic, and the hybrid/HOV exemption only adds to the problems here. ANY SOV car adds to traffic management problems.
Now, if you want to talk ecology; fill those hybrid seats on your way into and out of town which will take cars off the road reducing pollution and fuel consumption while you reduce traffic congestion! Please see my prior posts where I discuss the "Passenger" MPG comparison; a smart way to level the discussion on vehicle effeciency.
The smart answer (that hybrid owners do not want to hear) is to HOV commute. It goes a long way to solving so many problems and requires little changes in our lifestyle (beyond what most people in this area already do). |
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PennyPrius
Junior Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 14:57:37
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by raymond[/i]
[br]Penny, welcome to the discussion. I don't think anyone really hates hybrids, or those who drive them. I have said that I applaud hybrid drivers for taking steps that they feel are positive in addressing the issues.
I think most people on this side of the fence oppose the special treatment regarding the hybrid/HOV exemption. I have detailed several reasons for my opposition of the hybrid exemption including socio-economic discrimination and marketing manipulation/deception by the auto industry.
But we really need to understand the hybrid/HOV issue is more about moving commuters and managing traffic, and the hybrid/HOV exemption only adds to the problems here. ANY SOV car adds to traffic management problems.
Now, if you want to talk ecology; fill those hybrid seats on your way into and out of town which will take cars off the road reducing pollution and fuel consumption while you reduce traffic congestion! Please see my prior posts where I discuss the "Passenger" MPG comparison; a smart way to level the discussion on vehicle effeciency.
The smart answer (that hybrid owners do not want to hear) is to HOV commute. It goes a long way to solving so many problems and requires little changes in our lifestyle (beyond what most people in this area already do).
From what I have read, it seems that people resent SOV's. Why doesn't anyone speak of the LEO's that also take advantage of their HOV status? They are driving (usually) big v-8 gas hogs solo but I have yet to see them mentioned. Also, motorcycles.
If HOV is strictly for High occupancy, than NO exemptions should be granted. Once one exemption is made, then we can make as many as we (the people) want, as long as our legislators agree. I still maintain that some exceptions are realistic and others not so much so. Personally, I think the timing of HOV should be extended beyond 6 PM. or perhaps after 6 make it HOV 2 instead of 3. The bottom line is that the regular lanes IMHO are too crowded and moving a few cars over to HOV makes good sense, if no more lanes are to be added. |
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rodmunera
Junior Member
27 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 15:28:28
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Ok, 2 things:
Motorcycles (a dead horse that keeps on taking a beating): it's a safety issue, as explained in detail on other posts in this forum.
LEOs: It is actually Illegal for LEO's to drive SOV on HOV lanes while off-duty (e.g. on their way to work - on their way home). The exception is only for ON-DUTY LEO.
Whether off-duty LEOs get a pass from on-duty LEOs who are monitoring HOV as a professional courtesy is another matter entirely. |
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PennyPrius
Junior Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 17:50:40
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by rodmunera[/i]
[br]Ok, 2 things:
Motorcycles (a dead horse that keeps on taking a beating): it's a safety issue, as explained in detail on other posts in this forum.
LEOs: It is actually Illegal for LEO's to drive SOV on HOV lanes while off-duty (e.g. on their way to work - on their way home). The exception is only for ON-DUTY LEO.
Whether off-duty LEOs get a pass from on-duty LEOs who are monitoring HOV as a professional courtesy is another matter entirely.
The following is taken from the VDOT website:
Exemptions to the Rules:
1. Motorcycles are permitted to use HOV lanes throughout Virginia during HOV hours.
2. Motorists traveling to and from Dulles International Airport on business are permitted to use I-66 inside the Beltway during HOV hours.
3. Vehicles powered exclusively by clean special fuel, including Hybrid gasoline/electric, hydrogen, hythane, methane, compressed natural gas, electricity, liquefied natural gas, liquefied petroleum gas, ethane, and solar energy and registered with clean special fuel license plates are permitted to use HOV lanes. Hybrid fuel vehicles (i.e., gasoline engines that are assisted with electricity) that are registered with clean special fuel license plates also qualify to use the HOV lanes. (See FAQ above for more information or visit www.dmvnow.com.)
Not all hybrids qualify for clean special fuel license plates, but the following do: Toyota Prius, Honda Insight, Honda Civic, 2005 Ford Escape, 2006 Ford Escape, 2006 Toyota Highlander, 2006 Lexus RX 400, 2006 Mercury Mariner, 2006 Honda Accord, 2007 Mercury Mariner, 2007 Lexus GS450h, 2007 Ford Escape.
4. Emergency vehicles (fire, ambulance, rescue) and law enforcement vehicles are exempt. Public utility vehicles are permitted to use HOV lanes when responding to emergency calls.
I interpret #4 as any Law enforcement vehicle which would include on and or off duty marked or unmarked cars. So an officer on the way to or from work in a vehicle issued to him/her for use on and off the job IS exempt and CAN use HOV.
That is my point. Where does one draw the lines for exemptions? Apparantly VA draws the line to include certain Hybrids, motorcycles, Law enforcement vehicles and vehicles with three or more people in them.
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n/a
deleted
632 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 15:44:43
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Thanks for the update on VDOT exemption laws, I'm glad that the exemption is not a blanket 'free pass,' but identifies a few cars. Realistically there are few motorcycles and fewer LEO cars, compared to the thousands of SOV hybrids that clog the HOVs. (Although I think law makers and enforcers have applied a liberal interpretation of #4 in the name of national security. But who are we to analyze, we only know what we are told.)
This thread has an interesting title, "Tired of choking on hybrid fumes." Of course it's accurate, no matter if the smell is sulfur or CO2. Hybrids burn fossil fuels. Why the heck are they granted special exemptions?
Bottom line: ANY SOV contributes to our problems, HOV helps to solve them! HOT is discrimination! |
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Tired of choking on hybrid fumes
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