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colossus911
Senior Member Member
194 Posts |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2013 : 12:23:42
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quote:
Originally posted by colossus911
Yep, Journal of Industrial Ecology report from the WSJ. More carbon emissions than gas. Facts are tough things.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324128504578346913994914472.html?mod=rss_opinion_main
Looks like you forgot to read the article, and its assumptions - not facts. It makes assumptions about the manufacture that are not proven, it makes assumptions that are just wrong about the life of component parts, and it makes assumptions that seem unlikely about the total mileage of the vehicle before it is scrapped.
Yep - you are wrong AGAIN.
BTW, my 2002 Prius is still on the original battery, and has 3x the mileage quoted in the article. Try again when you have FACTS. |
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Pele
Advanced Member
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2013 : 23:01:38
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quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Looks like you forgot to read the article, and its assumptions - not facts. It makes assumptions about the manufacture that are not proven, it makes assumptions that are just wrong about the life of component parts, and it makes assumptions that seem unlikely about the total mileage of the vehicle before it is scrapped.
Yep - you are wrong AGAIN.
BTW, my 2002 Prius is still on the original battery, and has 3x the mileage quoted in the article. Try again when you have FACTS.
So how many 1st gen Priuses do you see out there?
Or how many 1st gen Honda Insights do you see running around? (I've been looking for one to replace my CRX. I might have a little better luck finding a Civic Hybrid... But not much better since I'm looking for a stick shift.)
People around here don't hang on to vehicles very long. Cars have become a disposable item because nobody maintains them.
Maybe you should base your info not on ONE vehicle, but an average sample of the DC area fleet of vehicles.
Also note that Lithium and Nickel (both minerals used in the manufacturing of batteries.) are not mined using very earth friendly processes... When's the last time you saw a bio-fueled or Hybrid powered backhoe, bulldozer, or tracked loader?
Finally, the info used in that article was supplied by Nissan for their Leaf model electric car. That article did not mention Hybrids at all.
Because the Leaf is solely electric powered, it does not have a gasoline engine to maintain the state of charge on the battery, therefore the battery does not last as long. It also moves the pollution source to the local power plant.
As shown here by Dominion Virginia Power documentation:
https://www.dom.com/about/pdf/irp/chapter-3.pdf
As of 2012, they've got the capacity to get 26% of our power from Coal. 24% from Natural Gas. 17% Nuclear. Only 2% of power generating capacity is renewable. |
Edited by - Pele on 03/17/2013 23:03:37 |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2013 : 15:11:53
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| Did you notice that the information came from an OPINION piece? Not even a real article... |
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colossus911
Senior Member Member
194 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 09:15:20
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Sure was an opinion piece....based on a solid peer reviewed abstract from the Journal of Industrial Ecology. Where the findings show that at 50,000 mile vehicle life EVs have a bigger carbon footprint than similar GAS vehicles.
In addition, "EVs exhibit the potential for significant increases in human toxicity, freshwater eco-toxicity, freshwater eutrophication, and metal depletion impacts, largely emanating from the vehicle supply chain. Results are sensitive to assumptions regarding electricity source, use phase energy consumption, vehicle lifetime, and battery replacement schedules. Because production impacts are more significant for EVs than conventional vehicles, assuming a vehicle lifetime of 200,000 km exaggerates the GWP benefits of EVs to 27% to 29% relative to gasoline vehicles or 17% to 20% relative to diesel. An assumption of 100,000 km decreases the benefit of EVs to 9% to 14% with respect to gasoline vehicles and results in impacts indistinguishable from those of a diesel vehicle. Improving the environmental profile of EVs requires engagement around reducing vehicle production supply chain impacts and promoting clean electricity sources in decision making regarding electricity infrastructure."
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-9290.2012.00532.x/abstract |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 08:13:49
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It appears to be an OPINION piece because the Jounal of Industrial Ecology appears to be an obscure publication containing articles that can best be described as science with a slant.
The so-called peer review is laughable. The references cited in the aritcle include very dated material (1997!) about batteries or suspect sources (Journal of Cleaner Production - just read the journal's stated aims!).
Sorry. Cherry picking outdated "facts" isn't tough - it's dishonest. |
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ljpcountry
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2014 : 12:17:07
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| Apparently, the 95/395 HOT/HOV lanes will NOT be available (without tolls) to single passenger Hybrids from Stafford to about Edsall Road. My understanding is that the Hybrids with the Clean Fuel tags can continue to be used from about Edsall Road into DC. So slugs may indeed be riding more of the hybrids (as slugs). |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 12:22:33
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quote:
Originally posted by ljpcountry
Apparently, the 95/395 HOT/HOV lanes will NOT be available (without tolls) to single passenger Hybrids from Stafford to about Edsall Road. My understanding is that the Hybrids with the Clean Fuel tags can continue to be used from about Edsall Road into DC. So slugs may indeed be riding more of the hybrids (as slugs).
Although possible, it is unlikely. Without the specific hybrid exemption, hardly anyone buys a hybrid - just look at your neighborhood!
However, their are several issues not really being addressed:
1. SOV toll payers will have to exit at Edsall. Edsall is already a mess, so this is likely to make a bad situation impossible. Have you seen any discussion on who is looking at this?
2. DC was thinking - and the Post endorsed - having the former HOV lanes across the 14th St bridge become toll roads. However, there has been no discussion about how to get exempt vehicles (grandfathered hybrids) off the I-395 reversable (used to be called express, but VDOT screwed that up) lanes. |
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SpongeBob
Advanced Member
USA
679 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2014 : 10:42:10
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Hello again...
NoSUV, there are lots of people buying hybrids now who have no idea there even is an exemption. They are becoming completely mainstream. We bought one (despite my years on here of calling them hype-breds  ) just because of the fuel savings for the 30 mile commute.
And you are SO RIGHT about the coming mess at Edsall. |
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NoSUV
Advanced Member
1076 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2014 : 15:55:46
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quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
Hello again...
NoSUV, there are lots of people buying hybrids now who have no idea there even is an exemption. They are becoming completely mainstream. We bought one (despite my years on here of calling them hype-breds ) just because of the fuel savings for the 30 mile commute.
And you are SO RIGHT about the coming mess at Edsall.
Spongie,
Welcome to the club! Only those who had an exemption can get one now through the grandfather clause. I'm thinking of insuring my tags for millions! BTW, Finally traded in my 2002 Prius with just over 180K miles. Now working on Prius #2.
I still see relatively few in the express lanes during peak commuting hours. I expect to see more when the tolls start. |
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Topic |
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Hybrids and Electrics cause MORE Carbon pollution.
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