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Deanwvu View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Location: VA
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deanwvu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HOT lanes and I'm out
    Posted: 05 Aug 2008 at 8:08pm
Seriously.


If all the horror stories are true here, I am moving. Hopefully by then, with a little foresight, I will be able to sell my house here in Woodbridge before its value goes down the tubes any further. No one will want to live south of Springfield when they learn about this HOT crap.

I will sell this place and either move to Arlington (where I can ditch my car altogether and ride my bicycle), or Maryland...

I'll miss my backyard, single-family home, and garage, but I really cannot deal with this HOT crap....
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ybarra View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ybarra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2008 at 10:33am
Maybe you should read a few article on HOt lanes. For example:

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/poole_20060700.shtml

or
http://www.reason.org/commentaries/poole_20080125.shtml

or
http://www.reason.org/pb59_hotlanes.pdf


[:)]
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toomuchcoffeelady View Drop Down
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Joined: 27 May 2008
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toomuchcoffeelady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2008 at 12:28pm
Hmm, a new poster plugging a political stance, using three articles from the same obscure website.

ain't free speech a wonderful thing, until you don't like the views being stated? - Ceejay2
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ybarra View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ybarra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2008 at 12:51pm
Not political, non partisan...,,,

Reason first published concept of HOT lanes in 1988, and again in 1993.

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n/a View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n/a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2008 at 2:08pm
Interesting the byline of this website, "Free Minds and Free Markets," is so hypocritical. "Reason.org" for got to add "...highway robbery" to their byline.

Especially since construction and maintanence on the interstate highway system (former President Eisenhower's gift to the American people) has already been paid for by past and future tax appropriations. So now that local DOTs cannot balance their budgets, they are backdoor digging back in the taxpayer's pockets with a highway robbery scheme.

*Consider the millions of tax dollars that are "matched" to contractor costs for HOT lane construction.
*Consider the guarantees of profitability that allow charge backs to VODT in the event HOV ridership exceeds a certain share of total traffic.
*Consider payments to the contractor in the event HOT use falls below a certain level.
*Consider tax dollars that will subsidize contractor profits in the event the HOT lanes are not profitable.
*Consider prohibitions on "competing" roadways that may offer future traffic abatement options.

If anyone does not believe this is a roundabout way to asses a user tax, you're blind! Unless they issue a reduction on the portion of our property and sales taxes that are allocated to transportation, this is simply a double tax rip-off.

HOT lanes are highway robbery! VDOT's Barbara Reese is a pirate!
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ybarra View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ybarra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2008 at 11:53am
Interesting to characterize the Eisenhower Interstate as a "gift" since it was with your own tax dollars. The maintenance dollars did not flow forever and there were no guarantees that they would. Also, the VDOT original proposal to widen the beltway was heading towards $4b (of your tax dollars) and probably never would have been built (noer any forseeable way to fund the maintainance) The private sector came forward with a less expensive solution and it is a partnership and the private sector will maintain it. The guarantees are far less expensive than VDOT's proposal, even if all your "considers" were taken into account.
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toomuchcoffeelady View Drop Down
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Joined: 27 May 2008
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toomuchcoffeelady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2008 at 2:13pm
quote:
Originally posted by ybarra

Interesting to characterize the Eisenhower Interstate as a "gift" since it was with your own tax dollars.


In Soviet Russia, is gift to pay taxes.

ain't free speech a wonderful thing, until you don't like the views being stated? - Ceejay2
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n/a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2008 at 3:57pm
quote:
Originally posted by ybarra

Interesting to characterize the Eisenhower Interstate as a "gift" since it was with your own tax dollars.


At least we only paid to build it once! With HOT, we paid to built the interstate, we'll pay to build the HOTs, and we'll pay to ride in them. Also, with all the contractor guarantees, we'll pay if we carpool too much, we'll pay if someone wants to build a "competing" road, and we'll pay if the contractor fails to make a profit! Compared to HOTs, the Eisenhower Interstate system was a gift!
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DC2RV View Drop Down
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Joined: 28 Feb 2002
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Points: 1014 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DC2RV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2008 at 7:23am
And in "Yoda-speak": gift it is, taxes to pay.
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n/a View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n/a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2008 at 4:03pm
quote:
Originally posted by DC2RV

And in "Yoda-speak": gift it is, taxes to pay.


And why shouldn't we foot the bill for our lifestyle? Someone's got to pay to keep the streetlights on. But we should only have to pay once for each public service! HOT lanes will make us pay over, and over, and over again for the same road. All the while, a private firm benefits from government protected fees on public road traffic. HOT lanes are highway robbery!

Besides, the interstates were built in the 50s and 60s, so unless you were working then, our parents paid for the interstates with their taxes. Our taxes should go towards road maintenance and expansion. But NO! VDOT (and many other state DOTs) forgot how to balance their books and now they are willing to sell out our transportation futures for the sake of a short term budget fix. Bad politics! And they have sold it to us as a tax avoidance strategy; their conning us all!

And if you were working then, happy retirement!
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