How is the Horner Road Split Working?
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Topic: How is the Horner Road Split Working?
Posted By: Admin
Subject: How is the Horner Road Split Working?
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 6:24am
Although it has only been one day, I would like to get feedback on how the Horner Road slug line split is working. I understand that the first day was somewhat confusing because not everyone was aware of the change.
In a way, slugging was a victim of its own success. As its popularity grew, the volume of cars became a problem as they spilled out onto Telegraph Road. When this happened and it became a real safety issue, the police had to step in to redirect traffic and issue citations. So, something needed to be done to prevent this from happening again.
The options presented were those of slugs and drivers (NOT VDOT or PWC). All the options presented were great and each could have worked to solve the problem. The option to keep 14th,L'Enfant, and Navy Yard together but use the perimeter of the commuter lot to stage cars had the most support so that is what was started on Wednesday, 21 April.
The one complaint thus far has been the slightly longer walk to the line and standing in the parking area itself (instead of on the curb). If it would be safer, the line could move to the curb.
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Replies:
Posted By: slowdown
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 7:29am
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So far this is a big pain. Especially for those that do not slug and meet carpool members. The line is right at the entrance to the lot and causes people to stop at the entrance to the lot. Let's see... I almost got hit entering the lot. Now, you have the new cars racing through that portion of the lot to find a "Close" parking space or to pick up a slug. #2, I almost "T-boned" someone racing out of an isle as I was traveling on the main isle. Thank God I know how idiots race through that lot and I was paying attention and was able to slam on my brakes and miss hitting him by about 5 inches. I'd say that gentleman was very lucking, he was in a very small white car and I was in a very large 2 ton pickup truck. Can people just slow down, remember who has the right away, and pay attention to what they are doing... Maybe moving the line to the curb would reduce the number of cars flying through the lot to pick up slugs.
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Posted By: dhdslug
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 9:18am
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I LOVE IT!!! I don't mind the longer walk. This has been a long time coming. [:D]
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Posted By: map077
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 9:29am
Just want to say THANK YOU to Admin and all the fellow riders who saw this change through and made it happen! Today was my first day back to work and, yes, I did have to walk a little farther but it was worth it. I only have one complaint which was addressed by "slowdown". I, too, was noticing how fast the cars were coming through this morning and I had to step back when someone came too close to me. We should all take special care when walking and driving especially while this is so new.
One other thing I wanted to mention. While all the suggestions and plans were being made for the change, I was amazed at how many people I spoke with while waiting in line who never even heard of this website (I spoke with a driver one morning who didn't know there was a "-" between slug and lines and she ended up on some website in Wisconsin!). Maybe VDOT could put the web address on the electronic sign to help get the word out there. I think it is important because the more people who know, the more people will be aware of the problems (like the issue of slowing down) and who can provide input and ideas to make this system continue to work well.
The great thing about this system is when there are problems, they are looked at and addressed. Can't ask for more than that!
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Posted By: AV8R
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 12:28pm
The change is a disater waiting to happen. I sluuged for 2 years and have been driving for the last two years. The quick stop to turn is dangerous as cars entering the lot at the first bend have to worry about getting rear-ended. Then you have to worry about cars that enter the middle drive entrance T-boning you as they either race for a parking spot or try to cut in line further up. The car line gets tight around the bend and blocks several open parking spaces. The tight squeeze does not allow you to pick up passengers for your destination if there are cars ahead waiting for passengers to their destinations. In other words,you can't pick up and go if you are ready and the cars in front of you are not. Just add snow in the winter and it will compound the problem!!! It is also VERY difficult to see people walking as they cut in between cars and there is little space to see them.
**POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS**: a) have the 14th street/L'Enfant car line que up on the inside side of the slug island (parallel to the road) that way all slugs can stand on the island. 18th St autos can use the left side, 14th St autos use the right. Easy in, easy out. b) swap the 14th ST line with the 18th ST line as there appear to be more cars/slugs for 14th/L'Enfant/Navy Yard. The current change is NOT optimal! Revise it, PLEASE!
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 12:50pm
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What AV8R says is true. I never considered the riders' point of view. It most be difficult to manuever and not getting hit by people trying to find empty spots where to park or trying to cut in line upfront.
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Posted By: jjmahoney
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 1:48pm
As a driver that goes the 18th Street route, I'm happy with the change. The number of 18th riders to 14th riders seems to change from week to week. That could be depending on the time of the morning I get there, but there does seem to be more 14th riders than 18th (before the line split). But there have been A LOT of cars that don't even pay attention to the VDOT sign and wait in the 18th street line only to find out when they get to the front that they're in the wrong line. They then speed out of line towards the 14th line. Not good at all. And there are many 14th riders that are looking for drivers in the 18th line. I can see the frustration on their faces as they're passing car after car and not getting a 14th driver.
But these are just growing pains. It will probably take a few days (or maybe weeks) for everyone to get used to it, and for all the riders and drivers to figure out what's going on. But my guess is by the end of the month, things will be fine.
"If tricycles came with guns, we'd all be safe." Project 86 - "Little Green Men"
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Posted By: dg222
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 3:55pm
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I don't like the new setup, who decided it should be th 14th street people. The 18th street group had a long line of cars when I left this morning.
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Posted By: Hopeful
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 3:57pm
It's okay, except for the people that get impatient on both ends. Cars will whip around in 3-point turns to avoid going through the lot, and riders will hang back seeing if they can get in cars further down. There is also no room up front for waiting cars. This morning cars were making a hard left on the way in insead of going through, and it was making it impossible to let cars that had picked slugs up out of line and on their way...
I think this should all work out with time, though...[8)]
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Posted By: roc
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 4:08pm
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Wonderful!! finally we split the lines! Thank YOU!! now, how about a line at 21st or 19th & K Street:)
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Posted By: Frisckey1
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 4:15pm
Well, I haven't slugged yet, was off work yesterday and had to go in late today - but was shocked to learn that the lines split? I like the idea, but I forsee a problem: people like me that normally arrive at the line (I'm an 18th person) and are scouring for parking spots are going to be inhibited on the days that there is a long line of 14th drivers, blocking those last few available parking spots at 7:30am...maybe I'm wrong (hopefully so) but I guess I'll see tomorrow as my first morning back to work...
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2004 at 11:08pm
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Let's see how it goes with time.
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Posted By: HornerRoad
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2004 at 10:08am
Separating the L'Enfant Plaza line from the 14th Street line lessens my chance of catching a quick ride. I try to catch a ride to L'Enfant Plaza to catch the green line, but often I find it faster to catch a ride to 14th & Independence to Smithsonian station. Only one very quick extra stop.
It also lessens the chances for cars headed for L'Enfant Plaza. Many cars headed for L'Enfant are willing to take passengers to 14th & Independence when there aren't enough L'Enfant people there. While picking up L'Enfant passengers may be okay for cars heading for the Navy Yard, it's doesn't work well the other way around. It's certainly not quick to drop off at the Navy Yard and head back to L'Enfant.
Also, I don't understand why the 18th Street line was kept at the original loading area and the other lines were moved. I always find that it's the cars heading for 18th St. that hold up the line because they end up having to actually wait for passengers.
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Posted By: datzjl
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2004 at 2:20pm
quote:
Originally posted by Admin
[br]Although it has only been one day, I would like to get feedback on how the Horner Road slug line split is working. I understand that the first day was somewhat confusing because not everyone was aware of the change.
In a way, slugging was a victim of its own success. As its popularity grew, the volume of cars became a problem as they spilled out onto Telegraph Road. When this happened and it became a real safety issue, the police had to step in to redirect traffic and issue citations. So, something needed to be done to prevent this from happening again.
The options presented were those of slugs and drivers (NOT VDOT or PWC). All the options presented were great and each could have worked to solve the problem. The option to keep 14th,L'Enfant, and Navy Yard together but use the perimeter of the commuter lot to stage cars had the most support so that is what was started on Wednesday, 21 April.
The one complaint thus far has been the slightly longer walk to the line and standing in the parking area itself (instead of on the curb). If it would be safer, the line could move to the curb.
Janis Datz
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Posted By: jhatton1980
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2004 at 3:09pm
There seems to be a lot of discussion on the length of the 18th street line.
I have been slugging to 18th street out of this lot every day since it opened.
I am here to tell you that the only consistency is that there is no consistency.
When I got to the line on Thursday (around 6:45) there were 4 cars just waiting for riders.
When I got there today, Friday (also around 6:45), there were twelve people already waiting for rides. No cars to be seen. When I finally got a ride, I looked back down the line. There were at least twelve more people waiting behind me. And no more cars in site.
Compare with 14th street, where there is a very consistent flow of cars. It definitely makes sense to me to move that big flow off the street and out of the way of the buses.
There might be a back up of 18th street cars one day (and not the next) but it will be 5 or 6 cars, not 10, 15, or 30. Certainly never enough to go out to Telegraph Rd.
In the past there were days where I would wait till I got to the front of the line, then, when I was first, I would reverse course and start walking the line looking for a car heading to 18th. It was not uncommon for me to walk to the end of the ine, three quarters of the way to Telegraph Road, and not find a ride to 18th. So there I would stand waiting.
Summary: I am very happy with the new formation.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2004 at 12:56pm
I'm not 100% happy with the new formation but as long as it's the best for everyone I'll live with it. Something had to be done and I understand that.
Ever since the new formation was implemented, I'm getting to Horner Rd. after 8am. Before that, the days I was at Horner Rd. at that hour, I always found several cars waiting for slugs going to 14th st. Now, I don't see that many cars for 14th st. anymore. Is that a pattern or riders got discourage?
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Posted By: pb1974
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2004 at 1:15pm
I'm glad the lines are split, but I have noticed that 14th drivers have dropped markedly. I got to a very long line at 7:20am today, waited probably 15 minutes for a ride, and the line was even longer when I finally got into a car (the line was much longer than I had ever seen it pre-split!). I don't know what is going on, but the lack of drivers at that hour was rather disconcerting.
quote:
Originally posted by emancilla
[br]I'm not 100% happy with the new formation but as long as it's the best for everyone I'll live with it. Something had to be done and I understand that.
Ever since the new formation was implemented, I'm getting to Horner Rd. after 8am. Before that, the days I was at Horner Rd. at that hour, I always found several cars waiting for slugs going to 14th st. Now, I don't see that many cars for 14th st. anymore. Is that a pattern or riders got discourage?
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Posted By: Mrs.KLB
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2004 at 2:08pm
You're right PB1974, I am a driver and I think I am going to go back to picking up at Potomac in the mornings and drop off at Horner in the evenings, a lot of what was said earlier is true I too have almost hit a couple of people trying to get to the line, one lady refused to move over and I couldn't go around her so I had to drive slowly behind her like I was a stalker [:p] following her.And when old man winter comes and those big beautiful snow hills that the county piles up it going to be special, but what can you do the lot was not designed with sluglines in mind!![:D]
Mrs. B
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2004 at 2:47pm
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That's what I though. I'm not the only one that thinks drivers for 14th street have reduced lately.
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Posted By: ering
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2004 at 3:09pm
I agree - the number of cars has severly decreased. I hope that this is not a sign of things to come.
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Posted By: southerngirl-nola
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2004 at 3:40pm
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For 14th St., I think the cars should turn in the first parking lot(on the right) and pick up slugs where we originally were. This will stop the line of cars on Telegraph and stop this long walk(since most of 14th St. riders park in what is called the 2nd and last lots).
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2004 at 12:07pm
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The strange thing is that there's no more slugs and few drivers. It's few drivers and same amount of slugs. So, that's what it raised the question, where are all the drivers?
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2004 at 12:27pm
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I didn't slug this morning because I had a friend that picked me up. I noticed the slugs decided to lined up in the curbside parallel to the main road. I think that's better than it was before.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2004 at 12:28pm
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Do you think they're "telecommuting"? Or did they just get their new hybrids and no longer need a slug or two? 'Tis puzzling. [;)]
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2004 at 12:34pm
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LOL, sludge. Hey, if they are telecommuting, I want to know so I can do it too. [:D]
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Posted By: pb1974
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2004 at 1:37pm
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I slugged this morning, and like emancilla said, we were on the sidewalk. It was much better. Plus, the way it is situated, the people in the middle and towards the back of the line can hear the drivers' destinations when they call them out. Hopefully it will stay there.
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Posted By: cwhitlock
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2004 at 10:25am
I am a 14th Street rider and occasional driver. Split is ok for now; however, make the front of the line at the corner, that way the cars pull to the front of the line to load the riders and are able to keep the movement of the cars moving, rather than have the riders walk aimlessly in confusion (You've been trying to flip the direction of the lines for months, now is the time to do it). Also have the cars make the turn at the first entrance and line up around the perimeter of the lot. If you try putting another line within the lot, you are going to cause congestion for those parking and those trying to pick up riders. The gentleman that tried to move the L'Enfant,Navy Yard line: it was worth the try, but it did not work. If everyone would print out the current information of the Horner line and give it to at least five people we could keep the line of communication open. Many that I have spoken with don't realize or can't figure out the latest plan of action. Up until about two weeks ago I did not have the location of the website. It is a great tool and I thank the veteran slugger that gave me the "correct" location of it.
Let'all keep on sharing our ideas; we are bound to come up with a solution everyone can live with.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2004 at 12:57pm
I've seen some drivers trying to catch slugs between isles before they get to the slug-line.
Some of the slugs that don't want to do the long walk(actually, it's not that far from where it was before)accept the offer.
This occurs when there's a long line of cars.
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Posted By: ronin718
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2004 at 1:16pm
quote:
Originally posted by emancilla
[br]I've seen some drivers trying to catch slugs between isles before they get to the slug-line.
Some of the slugs that don't want to do the long walk(actually, it's not that far from where it was before)accept the offer.
This occurs when there's a long line of cars.
Excuse me, but isn't this a violation of slug pick-up rules, not to mention a great discourtesy to those slugs already in line? I know I'd be pretty torqued, both as a driver and a slug, to watch some car pick up folks at the wrong end of the line just to speed up his commute.
I guess what's needed here is proper etiquette on the part of both sluggers and drivers. Folks need to get in line, wait their turns, and stop trying to circumvent the system. Otherwise, things might get really ugly.
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Posted By: billchang2
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2004 at 2:42pm
Working OK but line for 14th- Lenfant- Navy Yard is too long. I suggest we
1) split the line at the south east turn just before the cars line up on the eastern end of the lot. We could use the left lane for LE/NY riders and the painted island at the south end of the row as a place to pick them up. Then we'd use the right lane and the existing pickup spot (in the lot, not out on the curb- too much road and bus noise to hear the destinations) for the 14th st. riders. I'll draw a diagram and post them in the lot. Any reaction to this?
My other thought 2) is that since the volume is much higher for 14/LE/NY is much higher than 18th St, we should consider switching for that reason. Does anyone know who made the choice for the existiing lines. My input was to have them as 14/18 and LE/NY. Thanks. Slug on!
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 03 May 2004 at 11:44am
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The problem is that there's not too many slugs for L'Enfant and NY. At least not at 7:45am. You can find 6-8 cars in front of the line waiting for those destinations while all the cars n the back are for 14th. The suggestion to split 14th and LE/NY into two different slug-lines is a good idea.
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Posted By: carriageford
Date Posted: 03 May 2004 at 1:01pm
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I used Horner Road lot only once after the line split. First I was mis-directed to the 14th street line and once I found the correct line had to stand for over fifteen minutes for a ride because the cars in front were going to LeEnfant, didn't have passengers and couldn't move without exiting the parking lot, then people coming up from the parking lot were getting in cars at the end of the line, and the people in front of me wouldn't walk down the line. It was too confusing for me. I've been going to Hechingers or Potomac Mills since then.
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Posted By: pb1974
Date Posted: 03 May 2004 at 3:45pm
As a 14th street person, I wish we could split the lines between 14th, L'enfant, and Navy Yard, but I understand that it would be detrimental to the latter two, so I'll deal with the long line.
I'm not sure I really get your first suggestion (I am a visual person and need markers to understand the "directions" you gave), but I do highly object to having the pickup spot in the lot. That creates chaos and is dangerous. This morning the line was on the sidewalk and it was the most peaceful I had ever seen it (you can hear the destinations, btw).
I definitely don't think the new set-up is a perfect solution, but let's see if we can get used to this before we go changing things again. But please, riders, line up on the sidewalk! :)
quote:
Originally posted by billchang2
[br]Working OK but line for 14th- Lenfant- Navy Yard is too long. I suggest we
1) split the line at the south east turn just before the cars line up on the eastern end of the lot. We could use the left lane for LE/NY riders and the painted island at the south end of the row as a place to pick them up. Then we'd use the right lane and the existing pickup spot (in the lot, not out on the curb- too much road and bus noise to hear the destinations) for the 14th st. riders. I'll draw a diagram and post them in the lot. Any reaction to this?
My other thought 2) is that since the volume is much higher for 14/LE/NY is much higher than 18th St, we should consider switching for that reason. Does anyone know who made the choice for the existiing lines. My input was to have them as 14/18 and LE/NY. Thanks. Slug on!
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Posted By: JimH
Date Posted: 04 May 2004 at 8:59am
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I will be slugging W-F this week and will provide feedback from early time. I usually arrive in line around 5:40-5:50 and usually receive a ride 5:55-6:15.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 04 May 2004 at 11:22am
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That would be a good feedback. Thank you JimH.
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Posted By: JimH
Date Posted: 05 May 2004 at 7:54am
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The slug line was a mess this morning. I don't know if it looks this way every day, but I have some suggestions to "clean it up". I'm doing research on some things right now and will provide more later today.
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Posted By: pb1974
Date Posted: 05 May 2004 at 8:40am
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When I drove into the lot this morning, the 14th people were lined up on the sidewalk. By the time I parked and walked to the line, the line was in the parking lot! Can't we have some consistency here? I am really starting to hate this lot.
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Posted By: 5thGrp
Date Posted: 05 May 2004 at 2:28pm
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I am a driver. I arrive at Horner commuter lot between 7:45 and 8:00. By then parking in "1" and "2" is full, and cars are streaming in to "3". It seems to me it is a foregone conclusion that a late slug line will form there soon.
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Posted By: JimH
Date Posted: 05 May 2004 at 2:42pm
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5thGrp, Interesting perspective...it sounds like a possibility...BUT what about those people already in line on the other side of the lot? Starting a new line later in the morning could cause other riders to miss out.
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Posted By: 5thGrp
Date Posted: 06 May 2004 at 10:09am
quote:
Originally posted by JimH
[br]5thGrp, Interesting perspective...it sounds like a possibility...BUT what about those people already in line on the other side of the lot? Starting a new line later in the morning could cause other riders to miss out.
Re the 18th line - visibility is good for both drivers and riders and common sense could dictate the shift. As for 14th etc., the line seems to switch from the lot to the sidewalk and back again. If it remained on the sidewalk, they could have the same advantage.
The biggest factor is the time of morning. If it's 7:45 or later, chances are the 3rd lot is the better choice.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 06 May 2004 at 12:01pm
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Yes. I agree with pb1974. We need some consistency. I was thinking. Why don't we reverse the 14th street line. Cars could enter the lot from where they are exiting now and the cars could line up where they are entering. Do you follow me? The thing is that that exit should be exclusively for exiting not entering to the lot. That way, there is no problem getting back to the main road since the stage line would be to the left. What do you think?
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 06 May 2004 at 12:05pm
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Oh, and the slugs can wait for cars on the sidewalk.
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