Continued awful trips on HOV
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Topic: Continued awful trips on HOV
Posted By: Bob
Subject: Continued awful trips on HOV
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 8:45am
This morning (Nov 12)the commute was terrible again. My driver did not have the radio on and I didn't hear what happened. I think the problem is the non-HOV pre- 6am rush. If anything goes wrong it fouls the entire morning commute for the HOV. Something is going to have to be done eventually. I am thinking that we are almost at the point of shifting the am HOV to 5:30. And end the hybrid exemption sooner rather than later. I am about ready to fire off some more emails.
Bob
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Replies:
Posted By: sancochojoe
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 8:59am
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here we go again, Blaming Hybrids
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Posted By: tondalea
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 9:37am
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I think the evening and morning hours should be extended. I also noticed a lot of cheaters.
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Posted By: JustWannaGetHome
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 10:09am
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I'm sorry, but something HAS to change! I'm so tired of calling my boss from the congested HOV lanes telling her I'm stuck in traffic again! I'm lucky if I can get to work on time two days out of the week. I've been slugging to Rosslyn from Horner for over five years, and it's never been this consistently horrible...rain or shine! The only explanation is the Hybrids, it's true! Of course those that have Hybrids are going to deny it, they bought the car to get on HOV free. I'm so tired of this environment reasoning...it's hurting the environment, look at the congestion NOW! Something has to be done, can we all afford to go through this headache of a communte everyday on HOV lanes??? It's the HOV lanes, not the CF lanes!
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 10:18am
Hybrids are a factor, but anyone who has followed my posts on this knows that my concern there is for 2-3 years out, but if we dont get a policy handle on it now it could get terrible. I think the majority of the current problem relates to a massive amount of singles trying to beat the 6 am deadline. This is combined with much higher volumes in the HOV lanes in the 6-7 am period. There is no margin for problems any more. (Let's add some HOT lanes here!)
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 10:41am
I agree with you Bob. There are many contributing factors to days when the traffic is snarled and hybrids are still a relatively minor factor.
A lot of times, the problem that caused the backup is cleared long before we get to the scene. Any hickup can cause a massive slow down regardless of which lane it occurs in.
I don't see any miracle solution to that, unless you can teach people to drive and not rubberneck.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: Connie
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 10:49am
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The bottom line is that in the past month, the HOV lanes have become a nightmare commute.[:(!]I've heard several culprits - backups from early morning that drag on, downtown flooding and yes, even Hybrids. I have certainly observed more CF license plates in the lanes and while some might argue they are not the problem, they WILL become the problem as more and more are purchased. While some want the exemption continued because they bought the Hybrid to take the HOV lanes and get to work faster, I could argue that I and others bought our homes where we did because we could carpool via the HOV lanes and get to work faster. Therefore, I too am interested in protecting my investment[:)]and I believe that everyone benefits when the HOV system addresses congestion as it was originally intended. I've read that some people are sending emails - to who? And about what specifically?
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Posted By: 3ForHOV
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 11:32am
"I have certainly observed more CF license plates in the lanes and while some might argue they are not the problem, they WILL become the problem as more and more are purchased. While some want the exemption continued because they bought the Hybrid to take the HOV lanes and get to work faster, I could argue that I and others bought our homes where we did because we could carpool via the HOV lanes and get to work faster. Therefore, I too am interested in protecting my investment and I believe that everyone benefits when the HOV system addresses congestion as it was originally intended."
This has got to be the best comeback to the single rider hybrid owners I've read. Because of the HOV lanes, this is why we bought a house in Woodbridge. I'll be damned if I have to get up any earlier just to get to work. The HOV lanes are a big quality of life issue for me.
Unfortunately, no one has a solution -- not even the politicians. For instance, when Toddy Puller was asked if she knew of a way to ease congestion, her reply was, "I don't know." At least she was honest about it!!!
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 11:44am
I left Potomac Mills around 7:30 this morning, and got to Rosslyn at 8:30. The slow traffic was from Lorton, to Glebe, then normal from there on. Not even a backup on Washington Blvd. There was not an accident, or any unusual distraction at any point. The traffic reports on the radio didn't report anything other than the slow traffic.
I didn't count, but I saw about a dozen different "CF" plates during the trip including the one that mocks "HOV".
All I can say is that a year ago, this didn't happen. The only thing that's changed since then is the number of vehicles with excemptions to HOV has more than doubled.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 12:01pm
Well....more and more people are moving down south. This is leading to more and more people carpooling. Thus more and more people in the HOV. It's not just hybrids....it is just more people moving into the area....PERIOD!
I just read a study that said at the current population growth rate, that 5 minutes would be added to our commute every four months for the next 3 years. So if you think it's bad now....just wait. It's only going to get worse. It has steadily been deteriorating over the last decade.
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Posted By: sancochojoe
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 12:11pm
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Thats the same argument I had on another post. More People are moving South. PERIOD!!! And not one person that complains about hybrids want to admit or recognize thats the case. Look around, all those new homes being built at an incredible rate. You don't think they are commuting. The slug line at 610 between 5 and 5:30 will have almost 20 people waiting. That was unheard of several months ago.
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Posted By: vabigblue
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 12:20pm
quote:
Originally posted by Connie
[br]The bottom line is that in the past month, the HOV lanes have become a nightmare commute.[:(!]I've heard several culprits - backups from early morning that drag on, downtown flooding and yes, even Hybrids. I have certainly observed more CF license plates in the lanes and while some might argue they are not the problem, they WILL become the problem as more and more are purchased. While some want the exemption continued because they bought the Hybrid to take the HOV lanes and get to work faster, I could argue that I and others bought our homes where we did because we could carpool via the HOV lanes and get to work faster. Therefore, I too am interested in protecting my investment[:)]and I believe that everyone benefits when the HOV system addresses congestion as it was originally intended. I've read that some people are sending emails - to who? And about what specifically?
Well said Connie. Hybrids are not only a "minor" part of the problem, they are a "major" part and will be as long as they're permitted to drive in the HOV lanes. HOV lanes are for multiple (3 or more) riders only, or that's what I am led to believe.
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Posted By: 3ForHOV
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 12:33pm
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
[br]Well....more and more people are moving down south. This is leading to more and more people carpooling. Thus more and more people in the HOV. It's not just hybrids....it is just more people moving into the area....PERIOD!
I just read a study that said at the current population growth rate, that 5 minutes would be added to our commute every four months for the next 3 years. So if you think it's bad now....just wait. It's only going to get worse. It has steadily been deteriorating over the last decade.
It seems like right after Hurricane Isabel, traffic has been horrific day and night!!! It's even worse when it's drizzling rain!!!
I can't see blaming the traffic doubling over the last month and half on people moving down south. Most have to get the feel of the area and get settled first before finding the commuter lots, directions, etc. I see way more Hybrids than I see cheaters on my daily commute day and night.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 12:45pm
I don't get it that people blame hybrids. Note: I do not drive a hybrid...I carpool. I used to drive myself in the single lanes. That got to be unbearable so I started carpooling. I'm sure there are MANY others like myself who just couldn't take the drive anymore and started finding ways to use the HOV.
Now....out of the thousands of cars that use the HOV...how many do you think are hybrids??? I'd guess 100-200 at the MOST are in the lanes at any given time and I think that's a high estimate. That is a small fraction of the cars.
Think back several months. Adding 200 cars to the HOV lanes would be inconsequential. It might mean that you woulda had to pass an extra car or two...but whoopie. These backups that go from the beltway to 14th street are not caused by just 200 cars I promise you. Sure...they don't help the situation...but they certainly don't cause them.
The straight fact is that more people are on the HOV. It is cause by more people moving south, former single drivers that finally started carpooling or slugging, and hybrids. In my opinion.....I think the hybrid is the least significant of the 3.
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Posted By: Arbo
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 1:03pm
Acording to news reports over the last several months, there were several thousand hybrids bought in the DC metro area over the last 12 months alone. The most popular reasons given for purchase: HOV exemption and environment. I'd estimate about 5-10% of the cars I see in the HOV-3 during HOV hours are hybrids, almost all with only 1 person in a car with 4 doors. While Hybrids are not the only reason for the congestion, they are one cause that is very easy to fix - just get rid of their exception status.
Like Connie said, I bought a house in Stafford because of the "affordable" price and the fact that slugging the HOV allowed me to get to work in less than an hour.
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Posted By: Connie
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 1:09pm
I agree that a large problem is increased population. However, I think that it's within the increased population that the Hybrid use can grow. If people bought their homes near the HOV in order to carpool and get to work faster, it stands to reason that some may choose to move further south and purchase Hybrids to both get more affordable housing and a better commute. Hybrids don't have to wait in line and pick up slugs or park and ride so they have the quickest commute - get in your car and go. That's a very attractive option and more people will take advantage of it. If 300 HOV commuters are added to a population area and carpool, that's 100 cars - for every one of those people who choose to drive a Hybrid, that 100 goes up.
Perhaps not a significant problem now, but as Bob and others have observed, give it a year or two. HOV should be for vehicles that carry more than one person, plain and simple. (That goes for law enforcement officers not on duty - if they are commuting, they should have to follow the same rules we do.) If exemptions are going to be granted for single riders for who they are or what they drive, then change the name of the roads from HOV so there's no misperception on who the road is for.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 1:46pm
It may depend on what time you're looking. But at times, half the cars around me(say 5 of 10), are hybrids.
I was rear ended last week by a hybrid in the HOV lanes, and it seems that at least half the accidents in HOV involve a car with CF plates. How is this possible if they make up only a small percentage of the vehicles?
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Posted By: sancochojoe
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 1:50pm
The problem is, Hybrids are easy to blame, because it is tangible. When your on the HOV you see a hybrid then you get emotional and blame the whole problem on the hybrid. Nobody is throwing statistics out on the population growth moving outside the beltway. It's not tangible. You cant go to a new residents front door and ask them if they are using the HOV and that they are the cause of the new traffic problem. Or you might even suggest, if you have to nerve, to tell them to move back into the beltway because they are increasing the traffic for long term residents. Or how about telling them, they have until 2007 to move back to the city.
As you see, thats not tangible, you cant just throw out blame like you can to hybrid drivers.
I've also noticed how traffic has started to stretch past Quantico into Stafford heading north to DC. Should I blame that on the influx of hybrids using the main roads on 95 as well. Sure why not.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 2:08pm
I don't think hybrids OR a moving population can account for the absolute SURGE of backups we have had in HOV over the last month.
It seems to be much worse when it rains. Sure, sometimes it backs up when it's nice, but the weather seems to have a lot to do with it.
And it's been raining a lot lately...and the flooding certainly makes things back up.
I am noticing more localized back-up at the Springfield interchange as well...mostly due to construction.
But if this keeps up, we need to organize slugging to the Springfield Metro (at least from the Woodbridge area) because I would rather be moving on the Metro than stuck in the HOV.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 3:10pm
Well....if everyone is so certain it is the hybrids, then explain why the traffic in the regular lanes isn't getting better. I would think that with 'ALL THE MASSES OF PEOPLE CHANGING OVER TO HYBRIDS' that the result would be better traffic in the regular lanes.
It looks to me that theregular lanes are getting worse as well. So unless people are driving their regular vehicles and their hybrids at the same time....that theory is out the window.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 3:14pm
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
[br]Well....if everyone is so certain it is the hybrids, then explain why the traffic in the regular lanes isn't getting better. I would think that with 'ALL THE MASSES OF PEOPLE CHANGING OVER TO HYBRIDS' that the result would be better traffic in the regular lanes.
It looks to me that theregular lanes are getting worse as well. So unless people are driving their regular vehicles and their hybrids at the same time....that theory is out the window.
Your post makes sense, but I wonder if drivers or slugs are moving to hybrids? That would mean more congestion in HOV and steady congestion in the normal lanes.
I still don't think Hybrids are to blame, but it's something to think about.
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Posted By: JiggaJynx
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 3:20pm
quote:
Originally posted by cdatkins
...if this keeps up, we need to organize slugging to the Springfield Metro (at least from the Woodbridge area) because I would rather be moving on the Metro than stuck in the HOV.
Great idea! Some days I need to park at F-S and take the Metro, either because I will be staying quite late at the office or because I have a class to get to. The OmniRide buses between W'bridge and F-S Metro are okay, but the schedule is slow-w-w-w, and the buses fill up quickly. So I end up jumping into the mass of HOV traffic at 5:20 or so just to get to the Metro before HOV restrictions start and then have a very long day. I would LOVE to sleep a little longer and take slugs with me to the Metro.
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Posted By: tlschau
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2003 at 4:18pm
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Maybe a return to HOV-4 is in the not-too-distant future.
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Posted By: JustWannaGetHome
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 9:16am
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
[br]Well....if everyone is so certain it is the hybrids, then explain why the traffic in the regular lanes isn't getting better. I would think that with 'ALL THE MASSES OF PEOPLE CHANGING OVER TO HYBRIDS' that the result would be better traffic in the regular lanes.
It looks to me that theregular lanes are getting worse as well. So unless people are driving their regular vehicles and their hybrids at the same time....that theory is out the window.
Do you think only those that ride in the regular lanes are buying Hybrids? No, it's those that use to wait 20-30 minutes to pick up slugs in the morning/afternoon. It's the riders that want the freedom to leave work now if there's an emergency at home...so the theory that Hybrids are congesting the HOV lanes is not out the window. In fact, a number of times I have taken the HOV lanes up to Springfield and gotten off into the regular lanes knowing I'll move faster than the HOV lanes once past Springfield. The riders in my car always thank me for not having to sit in the congestion.
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Posted By: SKCRAB
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 9:36am
Your post makes sense, but I wonder if drivers or slugs are moving to hybrids? That would mean more congestion in HOV and steady congestion in the normal lanes.
I still don't think Hybrids are to blame, but it's something to think about.
I have certainly considered getting a hybrid to not have to deal with slugs. Especially on days when I have a perfume-unindated slug or a nail filer. I don't blame the hybrids for the congestion, I blame ill-mannered slugs for the congestion (ok, not really), but you must consider what is driving people to leave the slug system in favor of a peaceful ride to work. It seems to be the law exempting hybrids and law enforcement vehicles that is at issue, but while the exemption exists, I do not blame anyone for taking advantage of it.
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Posted By: Connie
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 9:38am
This morning was another nightmare. At one point, we were stuck in the right lane behind cars getting off at the Pentagon. We looked over and were passed by 4 Hybrids in a row, followed by one 3-person car and then 2 more Hybrids. We pulled over into the left lane and proceeded to pass 5 Hybrids within the line of approximately 15 cars waiting to exit at the Pentagon. That's 11 in a small space in a small snapshot of time. [:0]
No Hybrids are not the whole problem as someone pointed out. They are part of the problem. But I don't believe that you ignore something that can be fixed just because it's only part of the problem. I have begun contacting my representatives in Richmond -- I figure I've complained long enough and there's no point in that if I'm not willing to take action. [:)] And I am raising other issues that affect the lanes - other single driver exemptions, continued unchecked growth, the need to perhaps look at increasing the hours for HOV. If you have opinions on what is causing the problems and how they might be solved, please let your voice be heard as well.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 9:40am
Well, once they ban hybrids from the HOV and it is still a mess, maybe then you will be convinced it's not hybrids. Too bad that the ban won't be lifted any time soon though... because they aren't the problem.
I live in Fredericksburg and the traffic from there to the HOV is A LOT worse than it used to be. Traffic jams up where it never used to. The fact is that there are many more cars on the road. There is a lot more traffic altogether...not just more hybrids. Can't you people get that through your thick skulls????
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Posted By: JustWannaGetHome
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 9:54am
quote:
Originally posted by Connie
[br]This morning was another nightmare. At one point, we were stuck in the right lane behind cars getting off at the Pentagon. We looked over and were passed by 4 Hybrids in a row, followed by one 3-person car and then 2 more Hybrids. We pulled over into the left lane and proceeded to pass 5 Hybrids within the line of approximately 15 cars waiting to exit at the Pentagon. That's 11 in a small space in a small snapshot of time. [:0]
No Hybrids are not the whole problem as someone pointed out. They are part of the problem. But I don't believe that you ignore something that can be fixed just because it's only part of the problem. I have begun contacting my representatives in Richmond -- I figure I've complained long enough and there's no point in that if I'm not willing to take action. [:)] And I am raising other issues that affect the lanes - other single driver exemptions, continued unchecked growth, the need to perhaps look at increasing the hours for HOV. If you have opinions on what is causing the problems and how they might be solved, please let your voice be heard as well.
Could you let those that would also like to take some action, rather than just complain, know who you're contacting in Richmond (name/#/email)? Much appreciated!
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Posted By: SKCRAB
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 10:02am
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
[br]Well, once they ban hybrids from the HOV and it is still a mess, maybe then you will be convinced it's not hybrids. Too bad that the ban won't be lifted any time soon though... because they aren't the problem.
I live in Fredericksburg and the traffic from there to the HOV is A LOT worse than it used to be. Traffic jams up where it never used to. The fact is that there are many more cars on the road. There is a lot more traffic altogether...not just more hybrids. Can't you people get that through your thick skulls????
Seems like you are the one with the thick skull, they won't ban hybrids from the HOV lanes, they will remove the HOV-capacity exemption. I think your comment was a bit harsh.
I do not believe that anyone is blaming hybrids alone, but this is one factor that is getting attention because we watch in envy as these legally driving vehicles while we are trapped in cars listening to music we do not appreciate, or with people who do not have the same fundamental values as ourselves (to drink or not to drink in a car). But since we can't admit that, we have to say we are outraged that they get to drive solo. We are aware that construction, growth, HOV hours, drivers afraid of precipitation (bumper sticker should read: "will brake for a single raindrop", and many other factors play in to bad traffic. But hybrids are an easy target to vent about.
Love Connie's action on the subject! You go!!
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Posted By: 3ForHOV
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 10:13am
Maybe the surge in traffic has to do with daylight savings time? Could it be people are leaving for work later? I noticed in the afternoon ride home, there are many, many cheaters at 5:30 since it's been getting darker sooner and the cops are out of pocket.
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Posted By: JustWannaGetHome
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 10:20am
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
[br]Well, once they ban hybrids from the HOV and it is still a mess, maybe then you will be convinced it's not hybrids. Too bad that the ban won't be lifted any time soon though... because they aren't the problem.
I live in Fredericksburg and the traffic from there to the HOV is A LOT worse than it used to be. Traffic jams up where it never used to. The fact is that there are many more cars on the road. There is a lot more traffic altogether...not just more hybrids. Can't you people get that through your thick skulls????
I don't have a thick skull, I am very perceptive though. When you're trapped on HOV for hours at a time five days a week, you begin to see patterns. If you replaced the number of Hybrids that are on the HOV lanes, with cheaters, believe me everyone would agree that cheaters were causing the extensive backups.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 10:44am
Well the backup this morning seemed to be fairly localized to the Springfield area. Once we got to 395, traffic moved pretty well.
This is at least the second or third time I have noticed a completely or nearly localized backup in Springfield. Wonder what could be causing it?
Construction? Been that way for a long time.
New slugging from Springfield? Couldn't be enough volume to cause these backups, could it?
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Posted By: 3ForHOV
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 10:47am
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There was an accident this morning in the HOV lanes.
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Posted By: SKCRAB
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 10:47am
quote:
Originally posted by cdatkins
[br]Well the backup this morning seemed to be fairly localized to the Springfield area. Once we got to 395, traffic moved pretty well.
This is at least the second or third time I have noticed a completely or nearly localized backup in Springfield. Wonder what could be causing it?
Construction? Been that way for a long time.
New slugging from Springfield? Couldn't be enough volume to cause these backups, could it?
This morning there was an accident in the left HOV lane after the Springfield Exit-that seems to have been the main contributing factor today. Every other day it is something different.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 10:52am
Every other day it is something different.
Isn't that the truth.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 11:17am
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Yeah....and according to most in here...I bet the accident was caused by a hybrid car too. LOL What a joke.
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Posted By: Connie
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 11:51am
In response to the person who asked, I have thus far contacted Jeff Frederick who is the newly elected delegate in my area and campaigned on addressing transportation problems. He has a website: http://traffic-solutions.org/ You can send an email through it. I plan to gather some more names and then start actively contacting people in January/February as they take office/begin session.
And to the person who stated I and others have thick skulls - just because you see the problem differently does not make us stupid so please keep your insults to yourself. I have consistently maintained that exemptions for Hybrids and other single driver vehicles (law enforcement) are PART of the problem and that there are other issues that should be addressed as well including HOV hours and unchecked growth. Perhaps you could share how you are investigating/putting forth solutions for the growing congestion in the HOV lanes and it would give us more ideas for addressing the problem.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 12:12pm
You can take away the exemptions from hybrids and other single drivers and that will SLIGHTLY help in the short term. But soon enough...there will be too many vehicles for the roads. Unfortunately, I think the problem will take care of itself. The problem will continue to get worse and worse until the people who commute from down south will eventually be forced to accept lower paying jobs down south because it just won't be worth it to commute to DC any longer. To me...that's the most realistic expectation. Anyone who thinks that there is a magical cure for getting the traffic better without forcing tens of thousands of families to move elswhere in the country is living in a dream world.
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Posted By: deaspy
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 12:50pm
For what it's worth.
I believe the traffic problems come from: the sun is to bright, not bright enough, to windy, to rainy, flashing yellow lights, flashing blue lights, left hand merge, right hand merge. Hybrids are the least of the problems, let's teach the people how to drive and maybe things will flow a little better.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2003 at 4:37pm
Most of us who oppose hybrids on HOV, do so because they don't deserve an exemption to the law. They aren't even cleaner than many cars out there. The purpose of HOV is to allow cars with multiple passengers a quicker way to work to compensate them for going through the hassle of not driving by themselves.
I personally believe that at least 10% of the cars in the HOV lanes are these CF cars. If anyone doesn't believe that reducing the number of cars by 10% won't reduce congestion, they're nuts.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 6:43am
As I said....if you removed the "10%" of the cars from the HOV it would help...in the SHORT TERM. In just a few months that 10% will be replaced by legitamate HOV users and it will get just as congested and will continue to get worse from there.
Also....the real purpose of the HOV is to facilitate less cars on the road to reduce pollution. VDOT gets some funding based on quality of the air. That is the real purpose of the HOV. Therefore, one could argue the hybrids should have an exemption. I agree with most though that they shouldn't. But they do! The point I am mostly trying to make in this topic is that things are going to continue to get way worse before they even start to get better.....no matter who has exemptions.
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Posted By: sancochojoe
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 7:49am
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Especially when more people move south and buy homes in Stafford, Fredricksburg, etc.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 8:37am
KC,
Then I vote to require the "CF" to have at least three occupants, and see what happens. For that to happen, there would need to be thousands more slugs/carpoolers ever day.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 8:39am
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What I meant was for the exempted cars to be replaced by HOV-3 compliant cars...
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Posted By: tdar20
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 8:56am
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Cant believe that a statement was made earlier in this thread that Hybrids are invloved in 50 % of the accidents? What study produced those results? Hybrids are here to stay until 06 at least.
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Posted By: sancochojoe
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 11:09am
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"Emotional Statistics" produced those results.
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 12:54pm
quote:
If exemptions are going to be granted for single riders for who they are or what they drive, then change the name of the roads from HOV so there's no misperception on who the road is for.
How about Hybrid Only Vehicles?
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 12:55pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]It may depend on what time you're looking. But at times, half the cars around me(say 5 of 10), are hybrids.
I was rear ended last week by a hybrid in the HOV lanes, and it seems that at least half the accidents in HOV involve a car with CF plates. How is this possible if they make up only a small percentage of the vehicles?
Thats ridiculous and not factual.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 2:28pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]Most of us who oppose hybrids on HOV, do so because they don't deserve an exemption to the law. They aren't even cleaner than many cars out there. The purpose of HOV is to allow cars with multiple passengers a quicker way to work to compensate them for going through the hassle of not driving by themselves.
I personally believe that at least 10% of the cars in the HOV lanes are these CF cars. If anyone doesn't believe that reducing the number of cars by 10% won't reduce congestion, they're nuts.
The conclusion that at least some of us reached in another thread is that many oppose hybrids in HOV because they are jealous. I think that argument still holds water.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: Connie
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 2:57pm
What are we jealous of? Many of us could go out and buy Hybrids and drive by ourselves too - in fact, let's ALL do that. Let's do away with the whole car pool idea and make the lanes Hybrid Only Lanes. Everybody who drives or slugs now can go out and get a Hybrid and use their special lanes. In a few years, the old carpool lanes will look just like the regular lanes and we can all take 3 hours to get to work. But hey, we'll all get to ride by ourselves and sport cool vanity plates like "MYHOV4000" and it would do away with this rabid jealousy that we all have toward Hybrid owners. [:D]
Solving the area's congestion problems will take a real commitment among people, a real political advocacy, whether it be for or against Hybrids, unchecked growth in the areas south of town, increased telecommuting options, etc. But I suppose it's easier to sit in one's Ivory White Hybrid and proclaim the carpool commoners are jealous...
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 3:39pm
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Jealous??? Yeah right!! Hmmmm......a 76 or 85 horsepower car or a 280 horsepower car. Let me see.......Ummmmm. HAHAHA!!!! I'm not jealous of the parking I bet they have to pay either. When I used to drive single I paid $200 a month. Now that I carpool, I pay $18.00 a month. Granted.....sluggers pay even less.....$0.00. :-) Jealous....HA!
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Posted By: GeeseAreGood
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 4:33pm
There are not that many CFag cars out there to cause this much trouble. I believe the problem is the 0530 traffic, which I contribute to a lot, though at 0530, a single driver in the HOV lane is not a cheater, I exit at Springfield and Park & Ride. I believe a fix to this is start HOV at 0530 and in the evening extend it to 6:30 pm or 7:00 pm. This will make the HOV lanes more efficient and may even help traffic in all lanes as it will enourage more car pooling and slugging which removes cars from the road.
The problem with the CFags is that they were granted an exemption and laid out the big bucks based on this promise. I do not think the state should go back on the promise, but I do not think they should extend it or create new exemptions or HOT lanes.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 4:42pm
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Big bucks???? Excuse me.....20-25k for a car is not big bucks!
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 4:42pm
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And.....their POS car will still work even if it doesn't have an exemption.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 4:52pm
quote:
Thats ridiculous and not factual.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
Are you really as stupid as you make yourself out to be? I said that at times half the cars around me are with CF plates. This is a TRUE statement. This occurs frequently to me.
I also said that it SEEMS that half of the accidents in the HOV lanes have a hybrid involved. I did not say this is a fact, just that it SEEMS that way. I've seen less than ten accidents(after the fact) in the HOV lanes and four of them, involved a Hybrid car with CF plates.
You have a foolish notion that people are jealous of the CF exemption. That is your opinion, but it doesn't apply to me.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2003 at 6:18pm
If the reason for I-95 HOV is to encourage car pooling/slugging and move the maximum amount of commuters in the most efficient and environment friendly way -- maybe the HOV rulesmakers should use a mixture of all the proposed solutions on this message board. From what's been posted, this would include:
a. Extending the HOV restricted hours to an earlier start time in the morning and a later end time in the afternoon.
b. Reinstating HOV-4 to ensure larger amount of passenger miles per vehicle trip in the HOV lanes
c. Allowing CF/hybrid vehicles with a restriction to increase their number of passenger miles per HOV trip (maybe HOV-2 or HOV-3 for them) and maintain an incentive to purchase high fuel efficient vehicles
Then, enforce the rules. All this might ease the HOV congestion to an agreeable degree while inflicting a degree of acceptable pain on all commuters. If the future development and growth to the south of DC is as large as some have reported, HOV might ultimately have to revert to the way it was when HOV started many years ago when HOV was initially for only buses and 15-passenger van pools. [B)]
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2003 at 12:33pm
quote:
Originally posted by GeeseAreGood
[br]There are not that many CFag cars out there to cause this much trouble. I believe the problem is the 0530 traffic, which I contribute to a lot, though at 0530, a single driver in the HOV lane is not a cheater, I exit at Springfield and Park & Ride. I believe a fix to this is start HOV at 0530 and in the evening extend it to 6:30 pm or 7:00 pm. This will make the HOV lanes more efficient and may even help traffic in all lanes as it will enourage more car pooling and slugging which removes cars from the road.
The problem with the CFags is that they were granted an exemption and laid out the big bucks based on this promise. I do not think the state should go back on the promise, but I do not think they should extend it or create new exemptions or HOT lanes.
What exactly is a "CFag"?
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2003 at 12:37pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]quote:
Thats ridiculous and not factual.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
Are you really as stupid as you make yourself out to be? I said that at times half the cars around me are with CF plates. This is a TRUE statement. This occurs frequently to me.
I also said that it SEEMS that half of the accidents in the HOV lanes have a hybrid involved. I did not say this is a fact, just that it SEEMS that way. I've seen less than ten accidents(after the fact) in the HOV lanes and four of them, involved a Hybrid car with CF plates.
You have a foolish notion that people are jealous of the CF exemption. That is your opinion, but it doesn't apply to me.
Yes, I am as stupid as I make myself out to me. I am also as smart as I make myself out to be. So are you, and your statement regarding hybrids in accidents *seems* very stupid to me.
If the jealousy hat doesn't fit, don't wear it.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: ballston rider
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2003 at 8:33pm
I am new to the area and to slugging. I just started commuting to Arlington from Woodbridge and have noticed the morning back up, but what is more irritating to me is the evening back up. Can someone explain why the HOV entrance just north of Edsall rode always says OPEN? There is consistent back up at this point, sometimes up to 10 mintues to allow people to get on the HOV and more than half the people are single, non hybred drivers. I pass this area around 5:30 every day and it is really irritating. Once we get to Springfield, the entrance clearly says HOV restricted until 6pm and there are usually cops patroling that entrance looking for violators. Is there some reason why this is?
Ballston rider
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2003 at 6:35am
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That area of the HOV is open to all traffic provided they get off at the next exit.....similar to 14th St. to the Pentagon.
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Posted By: 3ForHOV
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2003 at 9:38am
Ballston Rider:
The reason why the HOV entrance at Edsall is open to [everyone] is to help alleviate the traffic in the mixing bowl. Eventually, this entrance will revert back to HOV only when the construction is completed (we hope). I feel your pain about this entrance since this is where I enter everyday. It's also frustrating that the people who are suppose to get off at the HOV exit in Springfield don't!!!
BTW, there are several other posts/threads on this board regarding this entrance.
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Posted By: tlschau
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2003 at 10:53am
quote:
Originally posted by 3ForHOV
[br]Ballston Rider:
The reason why the HOV entrance at Edsall is open to [everyone] is to help alleviate the traffic in the mixing bowl. Eventually, this entrance will revert back to HOV only when the construction is completed (we hope).
That's also what was said a number of years ago regarding HOV across the 14th street bridge. HOV restrictions used to go all the way across the 14th street bridge, but were "temporarily" set aside in order to alleviate traffic during bridge repair.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2003 at 11:26am
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Traffic was great this morning from 7:50 to 8:20 in the HOV lanes on 95/395. Not a single slow down all the way to Rossyln!
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Posted By: 3ForHOV
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2003 at 12:04pm
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Yea, it was great on the regular 395N lanes, too!!!
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Posted By: USA
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2003 at 8:22am
quote:
That's also what was said a number of years ago regarding HOV across the 14th street bridge. HOV restrictions used to go all the way across the 14th street bridge, but were "temporarily" set aside in order to alleviate traffic during bridge repair.
I drive in the regular lanes in the morning because the nearest slug line (Bob's) is too far out of the way, and I wish they would close that ramp too. That may sound odd because you might think it would back up the regular lanes to the bridge even more, but I think having that ramp open actually slows down the regular lanes inordinately because of what I call the "kamikaze drivers" who enter the highway at Washington Boulevard and immediately gun it over to that HOV ramp--stopping their cars, if necessary, and causing everyone else to slam on the brakes. Incredibly dangerous scenario.
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Posted By: USA
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2003 at 8:28am
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Something else regarding CF cars--bear in mind that not all of them are hybrids. I have a few colleagues who have natural gas cars, which are exempted under federal law. I bring this up simply because if the hybrid exemption WERE repealed, and then certain folks here saw the CNG cars in the express lanes, they would go berserk yelling about it. (Dr. Gridlock did last month, accusing someone with a propane-powered car of illegally switching the license plate.)
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Posted By: SKCRAB
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2003 at 3:08pm
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
[br]Jealous??? Yeah right!! Hmmmm......a 76 or 85 horsepower car or a 280 horsepower car. Let me see.......Ummmmm. HAHAHA!!!! I'm not jealous of the parking I bet they have to pay either. When I used to drive single I paid $200 a month. Now that I carpool, I pay $18.00 a month. Granted.....sluggers pay even less.....$0.00. :-) Jealous....HA!
Then there are those of us who get free parking, so we drive or ride as the line dictates. I have daily pondered buying one of those $80,000-government-subsidized-to-cost-the-consumer-only-$25,000 cars (something along those lines), so I could not only get the tax rebate from the IRS but also get to ride at my own comfort level in the HOV lanes.
I have stopped myself from the purchase, because I would be doing it for all of the wrong reasons--for example, the energy savings really doesn't matter to me if I have to trade off for a car with no power (I assume there is none, since they always seem to be puttering along slowly in the "fast lane") and because I know I wouldn't ever attempt to take riders, no matter how much of "the right thing" that would be to do.
I do feel a certain amount of envy for people that have the cojones enough to ride solo, falsely using the pretense of saving fuel and protecting the environment, when in reality they are using one car to shuttle one person, when they could be carpooling and thereby transporting 3 people for virtually the same fuel as one.) But as long as the exemption exists. . . .go for it!!!! I can handle a bit of envy until that day comes. Overall, HOV is still better than the regular lanes.[:)]
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Posted By: GeeseAreGood
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2003 at 10:25am
A CFag is a hybird car, I could say with the CF plates, but not all have the CFag plate and seem to do just fine.
I think we should call the CFers CFags!
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Posted By: SKCRAB
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2003 at 11:29am
quote:
Originally posted by GeeseAreGood
[br]A CFag is a hybird car, I could say with the CF plates, but not all have the CFag plate and seem to do just fine.
I think we should call the CFers CFags!
Or perhaps we shouldn't. That term just seems juvenilely derrogatory. I'm not sure whether your intention is to say that people who drive CF vehicles are offensive as cigarettes or as homosexuals, but such a label seems quite out of place. Perhaps you could come up with a term for which a 3rd grade education is required. Or better yet--not.
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Posted By: cindyds
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2003 at 1:26pm
What’s very irksome about allowing Hybrids in the HOV lanes is that from an environmental POV, it’s really dumb, and shows the fundamental ignorance of the VA lawmakers about how they work. Hybrids save gas/reduce pollution during stop-and-go city driving. So having a hybrid makes no sense if all you do is highway driving. If you’re really interested in the environment, then the smartest thing to do is encourage hybrid use in the city, or busy suburbs. A hybrid has NO different effect on the environment from an efficient, compact car when the primary use is highway, such as on the HOV lanes.
Owners will likely argue that the HOV rule encourages hybrid purchase to begin with. But surely there’s a better way. Those of us who slug can take comfort in the law’s expiration in 2006…and its unlikely renewal, given that the law violates Federal rules and would result in the loss of VA’s matched highway funds.
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Posted By: gatewayslug
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2003 at 1:43pm
Guess you haven't seen today's paper. Seems Congress is going to change the federal laws so Virginia (et al) will be in compliance and can continue the hybrid exemptions in HOV lanes. The House approved it in the energy bill and the Senate will take it up later this week. Did anyone really expect any less?
http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2003/112003/11192003/1173015
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2003 at 4:35pm
quote:
Originally posted by cindyds
[br]What’s very irksome about allowing Hybrids in the HOV lanes is that from an environmental POV, it’s really dumb, and shows the fundamental ignorance of the VA lawmakers about how they work. Hybrids save gas/reduce pollution during stop-and-go city driving. So having a hybrid makes no sense if all you do is highway driving. If you’re really interested in the environment, then the smartest thing to do is encourage hybrid use in the city, or busy suburbs. A hybrid has NO different effect on the environment from an efficient, compact car when the primary use is highway, such as on the HOV lanes.
Owners will likely argue that the HOV rule encourages hybrid purchase to begin with. But surely there’s a better way. Those of us who slug can take comfort in the law’s expiration in 2006…and its unlikely renewal, given that the law violates Federal rules and would result in the loss of VA’s matched highway funds.
With all due respect, there are at least two other threads that you should read below that pretty much exhaust all debatable facets of this. We barely survived without resorting to (too many) personal attacks.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2003 at 4:42pm
quote:
Originally posted by GeeseAreGood
[br]A CFag is a hybird car, I could say with the CF plates, but not all have the CFag plate and seem to do just fine.
I think we should call the CFers CFags!
... and what is a hybird car?
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: argentinian_belle
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2003 at 4:48pm
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A hybrid car is an electric and gas car that works off of both, so it's really fuel efficient.
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Posted By: SKCRAB
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2003 at 5:44pm
quote:
Originally posted by argentinian_belle
[br]A hybrid car is an electric and gas car that works off of both, so it's really fuel efficient.
. . .especially if more than one person are riding in it.
"Hybird" stated by the Goosewoman--could it mean anything else? Why do you even bother responding to her, Mroyal? Unless you are really her and you are trying to bring even more attention to her and her silly antics. GeeseareGood is fine for a little comic relief, if you don't take her seriously--but don't let her goad you. (and I will try not to be goaded too). The beer exception for Friday was a classic idea though.
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Posted By: sancochojoe
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2003 at 7:19am
Well, I will buy a hybrid soon, and not just to get on the HOV.
I think any push to have anything more efficient is a plus.
I personally don't like paying $50 to fill up an SUV so I would never buy one. Gas will not get any cheaper either.
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Posted By: viper
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2003 at 2:34pm
quote:
Originally posted by argentinian_belle
[br]A hybrid car is an electric and gas car that works off of both, so it's really fuel efficient.
mroyal knows what a "hybrid" car is... he wants to know what a "hybird" car is...duh!
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Posted By: argentinian_belle
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2003 at 3:19pm
quote:
Originally posted by viper
[br]quote:
Originally posted by argentinian_belle
[br]A hybrid car is an electric and gas car that works off of both, so it's really fuel efficient.
mroyal knows what a "hybrid" car is... he wants to know what a "hybird" car is...duh!
There's no reason to be mean. I didn't notice the difference of spelling. I bet there are many people out there who don't know what a HYBRID car is.
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Posted By: tdar20
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2003 at 12:11pm
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Good point belle....it is easy to take shots at people from behind the computer screen. A lot of the posts in this site are becomming a bit to personal on the attack side.
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Posted By: gdriva
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2003 at 2:38pm
No matter what, the problem is volume and more volume and it will get worse.
I admire hybrid buyers for the environmental gesture and would like to buy a hybrid car next, but not just to get a jump on HOV. I think hybrids should pick up riders just the same, no exceptions, because HOV is the one thing that helps move more people and decrease volume. I wouldn't mind going back to HOV 4. (Years ago I took HOV 4 with my little VW sun bug! Those were the days.)
Here's an even crazier idea: All (or more of) the 95 lanes should be HOV at rush hour, no exceptions for hybrids. New lines and destinations would form, and the lanes would carry more volume. Hey, compared with that, dropping the hybrid exception is mild! I know I know, blasphemy, madness.
Finally, I don't like the idea of HOT lanes, because ultimately they won't ease volume. It just means that people with more superfluous cash will have an advantage, as usual, and they will just add to the congestion and make life worse for the rest of us. Who decides about HOV/HOT designations? VDOT? Is there a limit to the hybrid exception now?
Thanks--
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Posted By: dcpswebgod
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2003 at 2:56pm
Can someone clarify something for me?
Is it okay for singles to ride HOV at night from Pentagon to Springfield offramp? I have heard it both ways and have seen many singles doing this -
The jam with singles getting in before the "bowl" is going to cause an accident some day as the drivers come over the hill.
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Posted By: Gomez
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2003 at 9:00am
quote:
Originally posted by dcpswebgod
[br]
Is it okay for singles to ride HOV at night from Pentagon to Springfield offramp? I have heard it both ways and have seen many singles doing this -
I have no "proof", but my understanding over three years has been, despite HOV restrictions being in effect, singles can use the HOV ONLY TO BYPASS the Mixing Bowl! i.e Not from the Pentagon, but from the "Regular Lane to HOV" crossover at Edsall road to the "HOV to Regular lane" crossover just past Old Keene Mill Rd. Get on HOV at the Pentagon as a single and you are in violation. Stay on the HOV beyond that as a single (even just to the Franconia-Springfield Parkway exit) and you are in violation.
Anybody who can correct any errors in the above, or point to evidence that this is (or is not), in fact, the policy please do so.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2003 at 11:54am
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My question would be.....Why would single drivers want to bypass the mixing bowl in the HOV lanes? Besides the wait just to get on the HOV after Edsall Rd., the traffic in the regular lanes is almost always faster than the HOV lanes during that stretch of the highway. I'm sure there must be another reason for singles to get on there.....wht is it?
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Posted By: jjmahoney
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2003 at 1:59pm
Yes, HOV is open to all traffic between the Edsall Rd. onramp and Springfield (the big sign that says "All NON-HOV traffic must exit". Although it causes more backups for us regular HOVers, it's legal. But many of the single riders think that they've gone that far, so they just stay on. And then get off at the Dale Blvd. exit (right after the PW Parkway exit) where there are hardly ever any police waiting. There are cops waiting at the Pentagon onramp quite frequently though, and usually right where the lanes merge with HOV, so it's nearly impossible to avoid once you commit to HOV (although I saw one person backing up on the ramp because they saw the cop!!)
"If tricycles came with guns, we'd all be safe." Project 86 - "Little Green Men"
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Posted By: earlyriser
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2003 at 10:59am
My theory on why traffic is so bad is the recent rise in Metro parking and rail rates. Why should I pay $9.70 per day to park and ride Metro, and spend 1hr 15 minutes commuting, when I can drive and pick up slugs and get to my office in 25 minutes and pay $8.00 to park?
Even if I have to pay $10-11.00 to park it's worth it to not have to deal with finding a space to park (a big IF), walking to the station, dealing with the crowds, and then trying to get out of the lot in the evening. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
earlyriser
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Posted By: Tilmer
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2004 at 12:39pm
A neighbor told me that even though the HOV gets backed up between Edsall and Springfield, he says it is a nightmare at the Springfield/Franconia exit because the cars on the right (coming off the beltway) are merging to the left to continue south on I95 and the cars on the left are merging to the right exits for Springfield and Franconia.
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
[br]My question would be.....Why would single drivers want to bypass the mixing bowl in the HOV lanes? Besides the wait just to get on the HOV after Edsall Rd., the traffic in the regular lanes is almost always faster than the HOV lanes during that stretch of the highway. I'm sure there must be another reason for singles to get on there.....wht is it?
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Posted By: JiggaJynx
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2004 at 1:39pm
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Your neighbor is correct. And since 395 merges onto 95 from the left, it's next to impossible (and very dangerous) to cut across several lanes of traffic in a short distance to exit at Springfield. So, till the system is improved, it is legal and advisable for drivers in the regular lanes to use the open portion of the HOV lanes to get off at Springfield.
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Posted By: bowflexguy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2004 at 2:27pm
Connie, looks like you made a mistake by moving out into the rural areas if all you want to do is beef about traffic. How about moving in closer and stop crying about traffic? What's next HOV-8? Only buses???
quote:
Originally posted by Connie
[br]This morning was another nightmare. At one point, we were stuck in the right lane behind cars getting off at the Pentagon. We looked over and were passed by 4 Hybrids in a row, followed by one 3-person car and then 2 more Hybrids. We pulled over into the left lane and proceeded to pass 5 Hybrids within the line of approximately 15 cars waiting to exit at the Pentagon. That's 11 in a small space in a small snapshot of time. [:0]
No Hybrids are not the whole problem as someone pointed out. They are part of the problem. But I don't believe that you ignore something that can be fixed just because it's only part of the problem. I have begun contacting my representatives in Richmond -- I figure I've complained long enough and there's no point in that if I'm not willing to take action. [:)] And I am raising other issues that affect the lanes - other single driver exemptions, continued unchecked growth, the need to perhaps look at increasing the hours for HOV. If you have opinions on what is causing the problems and how they might be solved, please let your voice be heard as well.
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Posted By: Maylo
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2004 at 12:24pm
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Connie raises valid points and has every right to complain. There are multiple reasons for the increasing congestion in the HOV lanes and it is only going to get worse UNLESS certain actions are taken (for eg. extend HOV hours to encourage more car pooling, get the hybrids off because they do not reduce the # of vehicles). Afterall, HOVs initial purpose was to get MORE cars OFF the road. Providing exceptions and making it easier for the single drivers to use the HOV lanes (for eg. early HOV hours ending at 6pm and allowing single drivers to get on at Edsall PROMOTES single drivers and does not encourage carpooling). Connie's posts serves a purpose and additionally prompts me to write any and all state representatives to complain.
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Posted By: k2
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2004 at 1:06pm
quote:
Originally posted by tdar20
[br]Good point belle....it is easy to take shots at people from behind the computer screen. A lot of the posts in this site are becomming a bit to personal on the attack side.
Use "too", not "to" in this case. Grammar slacker! [:o)]
Yes, do not type before you think. People tend to be offensive when posting Web messages. Lets save personal attacks for the Democratic primary! Sad, but true. :)
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Posted By: Connie
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2004 at 3:18pm
Wow, how refreshing to log in and find someone attacking a message I wrote at least a month ago. And further enlightening that the poster has only been posting since January 8 and all his other posts have been promotions for his Prius.
I wasn't aware I was "crying" by expressing concerns about an something that affects the quality of life for us all. In fact, I was expressing an opinion similar to others on this board, yet you chose to single me out by name and aim your sarcastic remarks at me. So far, the sum total of your posts have been to promote your Prius and criticize someone who expressed concerns about increasing traffic in the HOV lane. What exactly are you doing on this board since you have yet to actually discuss slugging?
quote:
Originally posted by bowflexguy
[br]Connie, looks like you made a mistake by moving out into the rural areas if all you want to do is beef about traffic. How about moving in closer and stop crying about traffic? What's next HOV-8? Only buses???
quote:
Originally posted by Connie
[br]This morning was another nightmare. At one point, we were stuck in the right lane behind cars getting off at the Pentagon. We looked over and were passed by 4 Hybrids in a row, followed by one 3-person car and then 2 more Hybrids. We pulled over into the left lane and proceeded to pass 5 Hybrids within the line of approximately 15 cars waiting to exit at the Pentagon. That's 11 in a small space in a small snapshot of time. [:0]
No Hybrids are not the whole problem as someone pointed out. They are part of the problem. But I don't believe that you ignore something that can be fixed just because it's only part of the problem. I have begun contacting my representatives in Richmond -- I figure I've complained long enough and there's no point in that if I'm not willing to take action. [:)] And I am raising other issues that affect the lanes - other single driver exemptions, continued unchecked growth, the need to perhaps look at increasing the hours for HOV. If you have opinions on what is causing the problems and how they might be solved, please let your voice be heard as well.
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Posted By: bowflexguy
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2004 at 7:54pm
Sorry Connie it was not a personal attack, just an observation [:)] Sorry I haven't chimmed in on issues that you feel need something to be mentioned. I didn't know my insight was that important [}:)], I too am expressing my opinions & picking the time and choicing of my responses (did I just sound like Bush?)[:0]
I would also say that I am not promoting anything here. All I can say is traffic isn't bad when you move into the city. There's a choice you make rural living = bad traffic. What have you done to make the traffic situation better? Do you think Richmond cares about Northern VA?
quote:
Originally posted by Connie
[br]Wow, how refreshing to log in and find someone attacking a message I wrote at least a month ago. And further enlightening that the poster has only been posting since January 8 and all his other posts have been promotions for his Prius.
I wasn't aware I was "crying" by expressing concerns about an something that affects the quality of life for us all. In fact, I was expressing an opinion similar to others on this board, yet you chose to single me out by name and aim your sarcastic remarks at me. So far, the sum total of your posts have been to promote your Prius and criticize someone who expressed concerns about increasing traffic in the HOV lane. What exactly are you doing on this board since you have yet to actually discuss slugging?
quote:
Originally posted by bowflexguy
[br]Connie, looks like you made a mistake by moving out into the rural areas if all you want to do is beef about traffic. How about moving in closer and stop crying about traffic? What's next HOV-8? Only buses???
quote:
Originally posted by Connie
[br]This morning was another nightmare. At one point, we were stuck in the right lane behind cars getting off at the Pentagon. We looked over and were passed by 4 Hybrids in a row, followed by one 3-person car and then 2 more Hybrids. We pulled over into the left lane and proceeded to pass 5 Hybrids within the line of approximately 15 cars waiting to exit at the Pentagon. That's 11 in a small space in a small snapshot of time. [:0]
No Hybrids are not the whole problem as someone pointed out. They are part of the problem. But I don't believe that you ignore something that can be fixed just because it's only part of the problem. I have begun contacting my representatives in Richmond -- I figure I've complained long enough and there's no point in that if I'm not willing to take action. [:)] And I am raising other issues that affect the lanes - other single driver exemptions, continued unchecked growth, the need to perhaps look at increasing the hours for HOV. If you have opinions on what is causing the problems and how they might be solved, please let your voice be heard as well.
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Posted By: Connie
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2004 at 9:25am
Well, bowflexguy, I have done my little part to make the traffic situation better by slugging, driving carpools and riding buses and trains for the past 10 years. If more people did those things, then I-95 wouldn't look like such a parking lot. I also have written letters to my representatives in Richmond about traffic issues and the relationship that unchecked growth has to increasing traffic problems.
And gee, thanks for the tip that moving into the city would lessen my commute. Why didn't I think of that before? Oh I know, maybe because all of us can't afford to live closer into the city. Maybe because the closer-in areas I could afford have crime problems I prefer not to expose my family too. You're right, I made a choice living where I did, but the choice was made to minimize the impact of the commute by living close to the HOV lanes and using them to get into work. At that time, only carpools and buses were allowed in them and they represented a good way to get to work from areas that offered affordable housing. So, I believe my concern about the rules changing and single drivers in Hybrids (or those who pay a toll if VA passes that) being allowed in the lanes is understandable when this change in rules negatively impacts the commute I thought I had signed on for.
You can chime in on anything you want but please remember that this is a very diverse group and solutions that may seem like a no-brainer to you, i.e., move to the city, actually may be rife with problems for other families.
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Posted By: mirangus
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2004 at 2:32pm
Hold up, everyone. Bowflexguy has a great idea!! I've started the "move-my-butt-to-the-city" fund and am accepting all donations. I take cash, check, all major credit cards and even livestock. So whatdya say, Bowflexguy? Got any extra chump change to throw down my way? [}:)]
BTW-Inner-city traffic stinks, too. The entire 50-mile radius reeks of horrible traffic. Going nowhere on Constitution would be just as crappy as sitting on I-95. Actually, worse, maybe. Because you're so close, yet so far away...
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Posted By: GeeseAreGood
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2004 at 10:09am
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I also accept pay pal and willing to accept money if anyone wants to donate!
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