HOT lanes
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Forum Name: HOT Lanes Discussion
Forum Description: Post messages regarding High Occupancy Toll (HOT) lanes here.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=499
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 5:48pm
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Topic: HOT lanes
Posted By: Bob
Subject: HOT lanes
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2003 at 8:26am
There is an article in the Post today about HOT lanes. The tone of this article as well as a number of radio and TV spots in the last couple of days has just been to rave about the potential of HOT lanes to reduce traffic.
I will make a couple of comments. First, no one ever mentions the negative impact on air pollution of HOT lanes. Second, think about how it would work. It would only work on isolated lanes where they could control things at the entry point. Does that mean they would create isolated lanes on 270 (which is one of the corredors they are talking about?) More likely, they are thinking about messing up I-95.
Bob [:(!]
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Replies:
Posted By: jerryclapham
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2003 at 1:17pm
I have thought about them on 95. It will not work. The HOV lanes at this time a running effectively and effiecntly. Now lets double or triple the number of cars in the HOV lanes that are carrying less people because there would be altneratives to pick up slugs or car pool. In addition there will be bottleneckl on the HOV because of increased volume. (e.g. exit ramp to the Pentagon). This will defeat the whole purpose of the HOV lanes on 95. Once again some politican has gotten a bug up their butt about the HOV lane. Now they want to spend tax dollars to do a study on HOT lanes. VADOT did a study (cost$1.4 million) several years ago on the effects of lowering the HOV from 3 to 2 on 95. They were surprised when carpoolers and slugs came out in droves to tell them what a diaster it would be. VADOT will get the same conculting firms and hire people who never travel the 95 on a regular basis in rush hour. I think that everyone should start writing their elected officals and tell them to stop this maddness.
Jerry
Jerry
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2003 at 12:28pm
We (as slugs) must voice our concern with this HOT concept. If anyone has information on who to contact please post it on the web or email me directly!
Here is the article. You can find it at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14863-2003Jun4.html
Toll Lanes' Concept Catching On
Planners, Officials Discuss Prices at Regional Meeting
By Katherine Shaver
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 5, 2003; Page B01
Traffic planners and public officials said yesterday that they sense increasing political support for giving motorists the option of buying their way out of congestion by paying tolls to use free-flowing carpool lanes.
With money for new roads, buses and trains scarce and traffic growing steadily worse, the officials said, they have few other ways to raise money to ease the Washington region's legendary backups. The toll income could be used to fund new transit and road projects, while making more efficient use of existing road space, supporters said.
Yesterday, more than 200 state and local transportation planners, politicians, academics and engineers gathered for the region's first major conference to discuss ways of pricing lanes. Just a few years ago, organizers said, such a discussion would have drawn fewer than 10 people.
"I think people are recognizing that the [traffic] problem continues to get worse, and there's a willingness to try new things," said Ronald Kirby, transportation director for the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments, which co-sponsored the conference with the Federal Highway Administration. "People are becoming more and more aware that there's a serious revenue problem . . . We have no other solutions on the horizon."
Pierce Homer, Virginia's deputy secretary of transportation, called the palpable level of enthusiasm in the Grand Hyatt meeting room "very significant."
"This is a serious question being asked in a lot of regions around the country: Are there market-based solutions to congestion?" Homer said.
In high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes, lone motorists may pay a toll to use the faster-moving carpool lanes. The tolls are deducted from prepaid accounts via electronic transponders on vehicles, similar to the "Smart Tag" transponders that allow motorists to breeze through toll booths.
Toll prices change throughout the day, with the highest prices during the morning and afternoon rush. The lanes remain free for carpoolers. The toll is always high enough to ensure that the lanes don't bog down. HOT lanes don't necessarily reduce traffic congestion, supporters say, but they help transportation departments manage it better by filling unused space in carpool lanes and giving motorists an incentive to drive outside the peak periods.
Before this year, the effort to create HOT lanes in the Washington region appeared to have stalled. The only local study came to an abrupt, controversial end in 2001 . Parris N. Glendening (D), who was then the governor of Maryland, canceled a HOT lane study for Route 50 through Prince George's County, saying such lanes would be unfair to lower-income drivers.
Maryland recently revived its study of HOT lanes, this time on Interstate 270 through Montgomery County. Virginia has asked for federal money to analyze HOT lanes on Northern Virginia highways.
A private company also has proposed using toll lanes to finance widening the Capital Beltway in Northern Virginia.
Adding to the momentum, supporters say, is the Bush administration's recent proposal to permit states to impose tolls on federal roads and interstate highways. The administration doesn't actively endorse the idea of HOT lanes but thinks they are "worth discussing" to better manage congestion and reduce air pollution, said Emil Frankel, assistant U.S. secretary for transportation policy.
"I think everyone acknowledges we have financial issues, and we need to think about all our options," Frankel said.
Many transportation planners have supported the idea of "value pricing" on highways for years, but hot lanes have been a tough political sell. Critics have dubbed them "Lexus Lanes," arguing that they favor the wealthy and are a double tax on roads that motorists already pay for through the gas tax.
Mid-Atlantic AAA spokesman Lon Anderson, the most vocal HOT lane critic, said he would support them only on new or wider highways and only if the toll revenue went primarily to expand road capacity.
"Shouldn't the goal be to move everyone at a more reasonable speed during rush hour than just those people who can pay?" Anderson said.
Conference organizers said they hoped the meeting would begin the public education that had helped overcome political opposition in some cities where HOT lanes now are in use.
Officials involved in HOT lane projects in Houston and in San Diego and Orange County in California told the conference that surveys showed similar income levels among drivers in the toll lanes and the regular lanes. Most drivers used them only when they were in a hurry, officials said.
Maryland Del. Carol S. Petzold (D-Montgomery) said HOT lanes could work on I-270 and on the intercounty connector proposed for Montgomery and Prince George's counties. The toll revenue could fund construction of the connector road, a transit link between Bethesda and New Carrollton and a rail line across the new Woodrow Wilson Bridge.
"The political reluctance is that you're charging money, which people think of as a tax," Petzold said.
"We need to change that attitude from HOT lanes being a tax increase to being a traffic management tool."
© 2003 The Washington Post Company
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2003 at 5:00am
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I just don't understand how they'll effectively enforce it.
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2003 at 6:30am
Does anyone have detailed information on the HOT lanes? Exactly what they are proposing, how it will operate, etc. I'm trying to locate the details of what they are proposing but have been unsuccessful (other than the newspaper articles).
If you have anything, I'd appreciate it.
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Posted By: wdossel
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2003 at 9:26am
Well, at the risk of getting flamed, there already is a form of HOT at work -- the use of hybrids in the HOV lane. In effect, people are paying $18K+ for using the HOV w/o more than one occupant...
HOT's are a poor method to raise revenue ostensibly for local projects -- frankly, does anyone on this board *really* expect that No. Va tolls will be plowed back into No. Va projects? As a former resident of Hampton Roads, I can assure you that there isn't a toll that once in place, the good folks in Richmond won't move heaven and earth to try and keep in place (the Beach "expressway" being one stellar example) and route the monies elsewhere in the state.
This is a real threat to the continued use of the HOVs as originally intended, and we as a group need to get the ear of our legislators -- *now* before the pro-toll advocates get a foothold or we're going to end up behind the [8]. I think it would be particularly useful if we obtained a summary of local and state officials' position re. HOT for use in future elections...
- Will
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2003 at 12:40pm
First of all I agree with you completely. Second, I'm hoping to add another section to the website for "Slugging Activists" (for lack of a better term). I'd like to list all the officials involved in not only HOT but other issues that impact slugging.
I think getting involved will be the focus of my next newsletter!
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 7:04am
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To prevent confusion of having two different threads discussing the same topic, the thread "HOV to HOT" has been locked from future postings. Please post all future comments here. Thanks.
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Posted By: Erin
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2003 at 3:29pm
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I'm in complete agreement! The idea of HOT lanes terrifies me... I love my commute the way it is. I live in Dumfries and it takes me about 50 minutes total to get door-to-door (I work at 14th&I). Why mess with a good thing? Some letters are definitely in order!
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Posted By: elama
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2003 at 12:31pm
Thank you and../ you go guy!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Admin
[br]First of all I agree with you completely. Second, I'm hoping to add another section to the website for "Slugging Activists" (for lack of a better term). I'd like to list all the officials involved in not only HOT but other issues that impact slugging.
I think getting involved will be the focus of my next newsletter!
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Posted By: jerryclapham
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2003 at 12:48pm
I got an idea. Lets keep the HOV lanes as is (no toll). Except get rid of the hybreds. And We start charging non-hov cars a toll on the regular lanes of 95/395. This will increase traffic flow, reduce smog and encourge carpools and mass transit. Then will all those millions we could build more roads or mass transit.
Jerry
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2003 at 3:09pm
quote:
Originally posted by jerryclapham
[br]I got an idea. Lets keep the HOV lanes as is (no toll). Except get rid of the hybreds. And We start charging non-hov cars a toll on the regular lanes of 95/395. This will increase traffic flow, reduce smog and encourge carpools and mass transit. Then will all those millions we could build more roads or mass transit.
Jerry
So, you propose to make 95/395 a toll road except for HOV, who not only get an open lane of traffic, but also at no cost.
Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. First, we have already paid (or are still paying) for these roads with taxes. Secoundly, there are a number of folks who drive solo out of necessity. Lastly, HOV lanes are a great benefit already. No need to provide further incentive to those who have already found ways of getting this benefit. WRT the hybrids, I disagree with you, but that is a different thread, isn't it.
But, they are not really interested in easing traffic flow with HOT, are they. It's all about the money. Pity, because I agree with those who say that the cost to create and maintain a HOT infrastructure would overide any net gain. It would also make HOV enforcement virtually impossible.
Let's just spend the money on (yet) another study.
The only change that I would suggest to ease the overall traffic is to change the HOV on 95 to HOV2, yet leave the HOV on 395 to HOV3. This would help two major conjestion areas on the regular lanes and encourage rideshare on 495.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: jerryclapham
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2003 at 8:55am
I agree with you that my suggestion to put a toll on 95/395 does not make sense. It was made to give an extreme suggestion to cut down on traffic on the 95/395 corridor. Yes we have paid for the roads (including the HOV lanes) with our tax dollars. But if Richmond really wants to reduce traffic and cut smog this will be the way to do it. I know it would never work. However neither will charging a toll on the HOV lanes for LOV. But yet Richmond will spend our tax dollars on a study to try to disprove. Maybe they will use the same firms that gave the low-ball estimates on the Mixing bowl projects.
Jerry
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Posted By: spacefan
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2003 at 11:19am
I believe the primary reason that HOT lanes are being considered is the increase in the state sales tax that WE voters decided against that would have, among other things, have paid for road repair, road improvements, the over budget Springfield interchange, etc.
Getting the Virginia legislature to reconsider the HOT lane idea is going to require a LARGE write-in campaign and slug presence at every meeting that VDOT holds on this topic.
Bottom line: This is a great way to kill slugging and put money in the pockets of the bus companies because I know lots of slugs who slug in the am and take the bus home in the pm. Eliminate the morning slug trip and you force slugs to take the bus.
P.S. Did anyone else see that insulting article in the Metro section of the Post about how drivers could possibly avoid "picking up strangers" in order to use the HOV lanes (it was a pro-HOT lane article).
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2003 at 11:58am
Yes, I picked up on the insult to slugs. It was a letter written by the director of Govt Relations for the Greater Washington Board of Trade.
Below is the letter:
HOT Idea In Traffic Management
Sunday, June 15, 2003; Page B08
Here I am tied up in traffic -- again -- but in the restricted high occupancy vehicle (HOV) lane next to me, cars carrying two or three people whiz by. I look at my watch. I stare at the brake lights. I move another 30 feet.
Sound familiar?
How would you like to be one of the fortunate few who cruise comfortably and legally in the restricted lanes, getting to work on time and not having to pick up strangers as riding companions for the privilege? If you would be willing to pay for this option, high occupancy toll (HOT) lanes may be for you.
At a recent conference sponsored by the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments, elected officials and civic and business leaders heard from transportation experts on the potential benefits of HOT lanes. The concept is simple: Allow solo drivers to use HOV lanes otherwise reserved for cars carrying two or three people.
Based on experience from HOT lanes in California, tolls would vary from $1 to about $4 in order to keep the lanes flowing. High-occupancy cars and buses would continue to travel at no cost.
There are HOV lanes on Northern Virginia's I-95, I-66 and Dulles Toll Road and Montgomery County's I-270 and U.S. 50. Trouble is, no regional system exists that would allow unimpeded travel on HOT lanes.
A recent analysis sponsored by the Reason Institute proposes just such a system. Existing HOV links in the region now total 170 lane-miles -- 134 in Northern Virginia and 36 in Maryland. These lanes would need to be supplemented by additional lanes on those roads as well as by HOT lanes on the Beltway and on I-95 as far north as Columbia. This would create a free-flowing regional roadway system for those willing to pay.
HOT lanes would defuse the acrimony among road builders, NIMBYs and environmentalists because they generally would use existing HOV lanes or the footprint of already-built infrastructure to add new lanes. The argument of those who mutter about favoring the well-off with a "Lexus lane" would be moot because bus rapid transit would provide a transit option. Further, at least half the cost of regional HOT lane improvements has been projected to be covered by toll-backed bonds.
Are HOT lanes the magic solution we have all been waiting for?
No, but they would provide a promising and creative transportation option.
Would we still need to raise new transportation revenue, better use what we already have, build new infrastructure and encourage transit-oriented development to fight congestion?
Yes, but these measures would have a vital new ally.
-- Bob Grow
is director of government relations
for the Greater Washington Board of Trade.
BobGrow@bot.org
© 2003 The Washington Post Company
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2003 at 12:21pm
I just sent a letter to Mr. Grow. Here it is.
Bob
Mr. Bob Grow
Greater Washington Board of Trade
Dear Mr. Grow,
I read your letter to the Washington Post in which you advocate the adoption of HOT lanes for the Washington DC area. I strongly disagree with your position that HOT lanes will be beneficial to congestion in this area. Implementation of HOT lanes will have the immediate effect of drastically reducing the incentive to carpool, vanpool, or take mass transit. This will put more cars on the road, making traffic far worse. Air pollution, which is a major problem, would also be worse. All of these single driver vehicles would descend on downtown areas, creating additional problems.
In addition, implementation of enforcement for HOT lanes would greatly slow down access to the HOV lanes. No one talks about this, but in a regular toll lane such as the Dulles Toll Road, all vehicles have to pay, while in a HOT lane, only the non-HOV will have to pay. But all vehicles would have to be checked or scanned at the entry points, greatly slowing traffic as it enters the HOV.
Your argument also presumes that there will be a large amount of unused capacity on the HOV lanes. This is not the case on I-95, on which I commute. In reality, no amount of excess capacity would be sufficient to prevent gridlock under HOT lanes.
One cannot directly compare us to the situation in California or in other places where HOV has not been successful. One is not “losing” anything in an area that has miniscule HOV participation.
High quality HOV lanes and the excellent commutes they provide are a very major part of the quality of life in the DC area. We have the highest participation in HOV commuting anywhere in the country. Let’s ensure that HOV will always provide a fast and environmentally friendly mode of transportation in the DC area.
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Posted By: wdossel
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2003 at 12:28pm
Excellent letter by Bob -- my suggestion would be that it serve as the template for an anti-HOT letter writing campaign...
- Will
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Posted By: spacefan
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2003 at 9:24pm
That was a great letter, Bob, and I agree that it would make a terrific template to drive home the notion that HOT lanes will discourage carpooling and encourage gridlock.
Slugging has worked so well because it is a grassroots movement of commuters that is loosely organized. However, to stop the increasing favoritism toward HOT lanes will require that slugs unite and get organized in stopping this quick fix for the budget woes of the Virginia legislature. I think we as slugs have to come up with a better solution than HOT and it is gratifying to see so many posters here with good ideas.
If HOT lanes ever become reality, I estimate that we will lose roughly 50% of the drivers that pickup slugs now. I doubt that lady who drives the really nice BMW will ever be picking up me or any other slug if HOT lanes become a reality.
STOP HOT!
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Posted By: koakui
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2003 at 4:34pm
One thing the paper and the government studies are not saying is that the study they are doing which they say is based on California toll roads is irrelevant for us in Northern Virginia. In California, they have the highway plus HOV lanes. They also have the toll roads (HOT) which is a separate entity from the HOV lanes. You can choose to use the HOT lanes and pay the fee, or, if not, use the HOV lane on the regular highway and not pay. To combine ours would be unfair and cause congestion.
Anyone interested in looking at California's toll roads - search under Google for toll roads in California - they are called The Toll Roads. I lived there for a number of years and their system does work and it works well. The key is keeping the regular HOV lanes and the HOT lanes seperate. We don't have room to build a separate highway so they need to scratch the idea. BTW, the commuters who used the HOT lanes pay for maintenance, etc. on the HOT lanes - not regular taxpayers and not people who use the regular HOV lanes.
[:X]
Cruisin in HOV
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Posted By: Mancilla
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2003 at 2:07pm
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I knew VDOT was hidden something that its studies did not reveal to the public. I also knew that there is no creativity in their heads to come up with innovating ideas. They are trying to copy the whole toll road idea from California but in the wrong direction. It will be chaos if they think that combining both HOV and HOT lanes is a brilliant idea. If this is all they can offering to solve the problem, no wonder...
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Posted By: mallslug
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2003 at 3:15pm
A big thanks to those who took the time to post the addresses of our Senators and Representatives. My letter writing campaign is underway. Just say NO to HOT.
Karen
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2003 at 7:35am
Bob,
Great letter! I will ask that others post copies of their letters to help the letter writing campaign!
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2003 at 9:26am
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I thought I would mention that there was a good anti-HOT letter in the Post over the weekend. I wasn't able to find it online to post here. It was placed at the very top of the letters to the editor section. It made several of the same points that have been made here. I'm sure it was read by thousands of people. In general, I have found the Post to be pro HOT lane and pro hybrid. Of course, they have also never seen a tax they dont like so that tells you about their judgement. Interestingly, they love to bash the Republicans on the environment, but never mention the environment in their coverage of things that will ruin HOV.
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Posted By: wine69
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2003 at 10:41am
Bob,
Is this the article?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17831-2003Jun20.html
I haven't been watching this post, so this might have been discussed or done, but is anyone doing an "organized" campaign to "collectively" write letters to our local politicians? I see a few posts here on individuals sending letters (this is Great!), but I think we need to get organized, make copies of a form letter, and distribute them in the morning commuter lots. If we can get a few volunteers from each lot (say one or two people take an hour), that would be great. Even if it just means leaving a box of form letters at each lot with a sign on a pole saying "Say NO to HOT" that points to the box of letters. Post a letter at the "HOT Letters (examples)" Forum. This distribution should be done every now and then, until this issue is put to bed!
I'm worried that those in favor of HOT, will slip this by all of us opposed to HOT. I can't imagine anyone, currently slugging, who would be in favor of HOT.
Comments, Suggestions, Ideas?
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Posted By: starry1
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2003 at 4:49pm
Call me a cynic, but I don't believe that the HOT lane proposal is about improving commuting at all, its all about State revenue. Here are my suggestions for increasing revenue.
1. Patrol the HOV lanes more than twice a month! There's gold in them there lanes. I'm a late slugger (8:30 and 5:30) and I swear most days I saw at LEAST 25% cheaters on the HOV.
2. Extend the evening HOV on I-95 to 6:30, that way those of us who get off late have a decent chance of getting home in good time, plus I bet the percentage of cheaters would increase to at least 30%.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.[8D]
"I started out with nothing and I still have most of it."
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Posted By: wdossel
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2003 at 5:30am
There is an interesting article in this month's Car & Driver re. the toll access to the downtown London area -- turns out the toll revenues aren't what the Mayor and and proponents were expecting them to be and as a result, there is a larger bill for the implementation/enforcement equipment than planned. Soooo, doing what any "good" politician would do, there is now talk about extending the toll zone east and westwards from the city core.
Oh yes, the reason for the toll originally, why, to solve congestion, of course...[;)]
- Will
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2003 at 8:05am
Here is the HOT lane article in today's Post. This has to do with the issue of using tolls to finance construction of new beltway lanes. I wonder if the powers that be would use this as a way to get their foot in the door to mess up 95 though.
Beltway Toll Lanes Endorsed
Va. Transportation Chief Wants Plan Considered
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, July 12, 2003; Page B01
RICHMOND, July 11 -- Virginia's top transportation official endorsed a proposal today to put toll lanes on the Capital Beltway, which would give lone drivers the opportunity to buy their way out of the traffic that clogs the region's primary thoroughfare.
Under a plan offered by a private company, four high occupancy toll lanes would be added to 12 miles of the Beltway, between Springfield and the Dulles Toll Road. Carpoolers and buses would use the HOT lanes for free. Single drivers could pay $1 to $4 to get off of the congested regular lanes. The $630 million project would be paid for almost entirely by tolls.
Virginia Department of Transportation Commissioner Philip A. Shucet said in an interview today that the idea is "a shining example" of a partnership between the state agency and a private company and merits a detailed evaluation. He said he will recommend next week that state officials work with the company, Fluor Daniel, to move the idea forward.
"HOT lanes represent an opportunity if people choose to use it, to move from a more congested traffic lane to a lane with some capacity," he said. "The alternative may be to do nothing."
Shucet has also ordered that the HOT lanes concept be among the options considered by transportation officials as they finalize a years-long environmental study of whether to widen the Beltway. The initial recommendation of that study, a $3.2 billion widening of the Beltway, was panned by Fairfax County officials and citizens.
The Commonwealth Transportation Board will vote on Shucet's recommendations at its monthly meeting Thursday.
Shucet's decision marks the first time Virginia's top transportation official has spoken so favorably about HOT lanes, which have been controversial in other states. Politicians sometimes call them "Lexus lanes," saying they allow wealthy drivers more options than other drivers to avoid traffic.
A final decision could be a year away. Discussions and negotiations with the company could take months, and VDOT will hold several public hearings on the idea as part of the environmental study. Anything Virginia decides must be approved by the federal government.
But Shucet's comments reflect growing support for the HOT lanes concept in the Washington region, where elected leaders have been unable to find solutions to traffic congestion. Last year, voters in Northern Virginia turned down a proposal to increase the sales tax by a half-cent to raise $5 billion for road and transit projects.
With transportation departments strapped for cash, some officials say charging user fees -- tolls -- may represent one of the few solutions left.
Earlier this year, Virginia transportation officials applied to the federal government for $1 million to study the HOT lanes concept. Virginia is still waiting for grant approval. Maryland, which in 2001 canceled a study of the idea for Route 50, is taking a new look at HOT lanes on Interstate 270.
Officials in Fairfax are generally supportive of the idea for moving people across the county. The Board of Supervisors voted unanimously last year to urge VDOT to study the idea.
Fairfax Supervisor Gerald E. Connolly (D-Providence), who is running for chairman of the county board, was an early proponent of HOT lanes. He said today that the idea has "enormous promise. It absolutely merits a serious, in-depth look."
The GOP nominee, Mychele Brickner, a member of the School Board, said she supports the idea of HOT lanes but worries about the impact of widening the Beltway.
"I'm a little less sure about trying them there," she said. "It may be easier to try them in a place where we already have the space to do it."
Jim Wamsley, a member of the board of the Fairfax Coalition for Smarter Growth, said his group opposes HOT lanes as just another road-widening project. He said VDOT should turn its attention to building a light-rail system that can bring people from Springfield to Tysons Corner. "What we need to do is get busy on the Metro capital improvement program," he said.
Gary Groat, a spokesman for Fluor Daniel, said the company can build the extra four lanes without having to destroy more than 10 homes in the process. And he said the project could be built quickly, opening within five to six years after a final decision is made.
They can do that, he said, by spending little or no money to build bigger interchanges, a key part of VDOT's original $3.2 billion widening plans.
"We are living within our means and putting our money where the congestion is at -- on the mainline, not the interchanges," Groat said.
Shucet said HOT lanes would allow Fairfax to offer express bus service across the county. Currently, buses use other routes because Beltway traffic is unpredictable.
"We have a transportation problem for which there is not a readily available public solution," Shucet said. HOT lanes "represent an application of a basic economic principle on a transportation system: 'There's some capacity in the lanes, and I can pay for the right to use them.' "
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Posted By: dambam
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2003 at 9:54am
[:(!]There's an article in today's Washington Post about "the growing support for HOT lanes". Here's the url: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45382-2003Jul11.html.
I, like most people who use the slugging system, am totally 100% against the idea of HOT lanes. Between the hybrids and the HOT lane concept, the HOV lanes will become just as back up as the regular lanes.
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Posted By: 3ForHOV
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2003 at 4:10pm
Between the hybrids and the HOT lane concept, the HOV lanes will become just as back up as the regular lanes.
Don't forget to include the "law enforcement" vehicles that take advantage of the HOV lanes.
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Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2003 at 12:35pm
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And aren't the HOV lanes already HOT lanes in a sense? It just happens that the toll is 2 additional riders...or a $50 ticket.
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Posted By: 3ForHOV
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2003 at 2:14pm
WTOP stated today that a consulting firm was hired and the VA HOT lanes would be built and finished in 4-6 years and also be paid for entirely with tolls. I got the impression these lanes would be in addition to the existing HOV lanes. My question is...where are they going to build the HOT lanes? There is no more room on I-95. Rather than build a HOT lane, why not just expand/build additional lanes on the highway to help alleviate traffic? My other pondering is...where is the money going to come from to front this project? Venture capital? Private investors? Better not be the taxpayers!!!!
Here's the article from WTOP. http://www.wtop.com/index.php?sid=104435&nid=25
One of my questions was answered in the article--lanes would be built on 495 between Springfield and Tysons Corner.
Guess this thread will finally die down since it won't affect most commuters who are traveling from I-95 South to DC and vice versa.
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Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2003 at 2:20pm
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I'd heard on the news that the HOT lanes were to be built on 495 between Springfield and the Dulles Toll Road and that it would expand 495 to 12 lanes.
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Posted By: JiggaJynx
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2003 at 10:07am
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that, given the ridiculously low toll prices proposed, people will just negotiate HOT tolls into their compensation packages at work or lobby to use Metrocheks to pay for them. Why bother with a stop at the commuter lot to pick up riders?
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Posted By: tlschau
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2003 at 11:19am
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JiggaJynx, I'm not sure about the compensation packages at some places, but I'm almost sure that the use of Metrochecks would not be approved for use to pay for HOT lanes. There are many things that Metrochecks cannot pay for now, like parking. But hopefully none of this will matter as long as our beloved HOV lanes are not affected by any HOT lanes plans.
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Posted By: USA
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2003 at 11:42am
quote:
Originally posted by tlschau
[br]JiggaJynx, I'm not sure about the compensation packages at some places, but I'm almost sure that the use of Metrochecks would not be approved for use to pay for HOT lanes. There are many things that Metrochecks cannot pay for now, like parking. But hopefully none of this will matter as long as our beloved HOV lanes are not affected by any HOT lanes plans.
You CAN use Metrocheks to pay for parking at Metrorail stations if you immediately put the Metrochek onto a SmarTrip card. Plus this lets you use the SmarTrip express lane--i.e., cash not accepted, much like the E-ZPass Only lanes at tollbooths.
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Posted By: JiggaJynx
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2003 at 10:07am
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The VDOT website (www.virginiadot.org) has a link to HOT information in the upper left corner of page. The link "Power Point presentation" includes a graphic of the proposed HOT lanes. They extend on I-495 from the Springfield interchange to at least the Dulles toll road. There is possibly extension to Rt. 193, with HOV lanes continuing to the Potomac. Also, there is a proposed optional extension from Springfield to the Wilson Bridge, but the I-95/395 corridor is not considered for HOT in the proposal. That doesn't mean it won't be in the future.
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Posted By: Fogle
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2003 at 3:17pm
I stumbled over this forum while searching for information on VA HOT Lanes. Let me acknowledge up front that I work in the transporation field and am very familiar with HOT Lanes and other forms of pricing. However, I do vanpool to work on a regular basis and have been a huge slug fan for many years.
I found many of your comments whether pro or con on HOT lanes to be quite informative. The purpose of this post is to let you know where you can obtain additional information about Value Pricing and specifically HOT Lanes. If you are going to form an opinion, you should at least have all the facts.
First things first...My personal opinion in regards to whether HOT Lanes would be good for the I-95/I-395 corridor are wishy-washy. As the facility currently operates, it already breaks down when you get close to DC. Therefore, it would seem that the application of HOT lanes would not be warranted because HOT Lanes are designed to help where HOV Lanes are not working well (does not carry more people than the parallel SOV lanes). You probably know of places where it does not work. A few years ago when I attended a Public meeting regarding HOT Lanes in the corridor, many users suggested that the occupancy be bumped back up to HOV-4. If the occupancy went to HOV-4, there might be extra room on the facility, maybe not. At this time, I think everybody should be raving about the success of HOV usage in the I-95/I-395 corridor and making sure that the money COG spends to evaluate the facility every year also includes a public relations piece that touts its success. The other missing element is improved enforcement...
If you have ever been to CA you know that first time violators receive a $270 fine for HOV violations and points on their license. At this time, in comparison you need to look at the VA HOV policy and ask yourself whether it is really effective. Enough said...
Go to www.valuepricing.org to obtain information regarding Pricing and HOT Lanes. There is plenty of data to confirm that HOT Lanes are effective in relieving congestion. In San Diego, people want the lanes extended. It is not all about the money either. The funds generated pay for express bus service on the fast lanes. You can also to the FHWA website and look under policy studies to find the value pricing website. Good Luck. I think you guys are awesome.
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Posted By: dietzf
Date Posted: 27 May 2004 at 4:44pm
quote:
Originally posted by Admin
[br]We (as slugs) must voice our concern with this HOT concept. If anyone has information on who to contact please post it on the web or email me directly!
Here is the article. You can find it at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14863-2003Jun4.html
Toll Lanes' Concept Catching On
Planners, Officials Discuss Prices at Regional Meeting
By Katherine Shaver
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 5, 2003; Page B01
Traffic planners and public officials said yesterday that they sense increasing political support for giving motorists the option of buying their way out of congestion by paying tolls to use free-flowing carpool lanes.
With money for new roads, buses and trains scarce and traffic growing steadily worse, the officials said, they have few other ways to raise money to ease the Washington region's legendary backups. The toll income could be used to fund new transit and road projects, while making more efficient use of existing road space, supporters said.
Yesterday, more than 200 state and local transportation planners, politicians, academics and engineers gathered for the region's first major conference to discuss ways of pricing lanes. Just a few years ago, organizers said, such a discussion would have drawn fewer than 10 people.
"I think people are recognizing that the [traffic] problem continues to get worse, and there's a willingness to try new things," said Ronald Kirby, transportation director for the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments, which co-sponsored the conference with the Federal Highway Administration. "People are becoming more and more aware that there's a serious revenue problem . . . We have no other solutions on the horizon."
Pierce Homer, Virginia's deputy secretary of transportation, called the palpable level of enthusiasm in the Grand Hyatt meeting room "very significant."
"This is a serious question being asked in a lot of regions around the country: Are there market-based solutions to congestion?" Homer said.
In high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes, lone motorists may pay a toll to use the faster-moving carpool lanes. The tolls are deducted from prepaid accounts via electronic transponders on vehicles, similar to the "Smart Tag" transponders that allow motorists to breeze through toll booths.
Toll prices change throughout the day, with the highest prices during the morning and afternoon rush. The lanes remain free for carpoolers. The toll is always high enough to ensure that the lanes don't bog down. HOT lanes don't necessarily reduce traffic congestion, supporters say, but they help transportation departments manage it better by filling unused space in carpool lanes and giving motorists an incentive to drive outside the peak periods.
Before this year, the effort to create HOT lanes in the Washington region appeared to have stalled. The only local study came to an abrupt, controversial end in 2001 . Parris N. Glendening (D), who was then the governor of Maryland, canceled a HOT lane study for Route 50 through Prince George's County, saying such lanes would be unfair to lower-income drivers.
Maryland recently revived its study of HOT lanes, this time on Interstate 270 through Montgomery County. Virginia has asked for federal money to analyze HOT lanes on Northern Virginia highways.
A private company also has proposed using toll lanes to finance widening the Capital Beltway in Northern Virginia.
Adding to the momentum, supporters say, is the Bush administration's recent proposal to permit states to impose tolls on federal roads and interstate highways. The administration doesn't actively endorse the idea of HOT lanes but thinks they are "worth discussing" to better manage congestion and reduce air pollution, said Emil Frankel, assistant U.S. secretary for transportation policy.
"I think everyone acknowledges we have financial issues, and we need to think about all our options," Frankel said.
Many transportation planners have supported the idea of "value pricing" on highways for years, but hot lanes have been a tough political sell. Critics have dubbed them "Lexus Lanes," arguing that they favor the wealthy and are a double tax on roads that motorists already pay for through the gas tax.
Mid-Atlantic AAA spokesman Lon Anderson, the most vocal HOT lane critic, said he would support them only on new or wider highways and only if the toll revenue went primarily to expand road capacity.
"Shouldn't the goal be to move everyone at a more reasonable speed during rush hour than just those people who can pay?" Anderson said.
Conference organizers said they hoped the meeting would begin the public education that had helped overcome political opposition in some cities where HOT lanes now are in use.
Officials involved in HOT lane projects in Houston and in San Diego and Orange County in California told the conference that surveys showed similar income levels among drivers in the toll lanes and the regular lanes. Most drivers used them only when they were in a hurry, officials said.
Maryland Del. Carol S. Petzold (D-Montgomery) said HOT lanes could work on I-270 and on the intercounty connector proposed for Montgomery and Prince George's counties. The toll revenue could fund construction of the connector road, a transit link between Bethesda and New Carrollton and a rail line across the new Woodrow Wilson Bridge.
"The political reluctance is that you're charging money, which people think of as a tax," Petzold said.
"We need to change that attitude from HOT lanes being a tax increase to being a traffic management tool."
© 2003 The Washington Post Company
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Posted By: dietzf
Date Posted: 27 May 2004 at 4:51pm
As a slug myself, I definitely agree that we need to organize against HOT lanes. Right now, it seems they are considering them for the Beltway, but it's only a matter of time before they look toward the HOV lanes as possible HOT lanes, and that's what we have to stop.
I am a member of the Prince William County Transportation Advisory Board, as an appointed member from Occoquan District. We meet every month, and our May meeting is tonight. The HOT lane concept is on the agenda and I plan to speak to my fellow Board members about it.
My initial goal is to get the TAB to write a letter to the PW County Board of Supervisors, with a request that they issue a resolution to our state legislators, the Governor, and VDOT. We can't stop there, but at least that will get us on record. We will then have to enlist the help of Stafford and Spotsylvania Counties, which also would be adversely impacted by HOT lanes. Fairfax County is, of course, in favor of HOT lanes because they rarely use HOV, but are plenty wealthy enough to use HOT lanes.
We are going to have to band together, as users of HOV, on this and other issues, such as hybrids (that's a topic for another day).
I'll post back tomorrow (if I remember) and let you know what by fellow Board members think.
Francis
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Posted By: JiggaJynx
Date Posted: 28 May 2004 at 5:41am
dietzf,
Please do tell us the results of last night's meeting. How much sway does the TAB hold with state budget folks?
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Posted By: dietzf
Date Posted: 28 May 2004 at 9:51am
quote:
Originally posted by JiggaJynx
[br]dietzf,
Please do tell us the results of last night's meeting. How much sway does the TAB hold with state budget folks?
OK, guys, here's the deal: At the Transportation Advisory Board meeting last night, we discussed the HOT lanes concept. Most were in favor of HOT lanes as long as they are NEW lanes, built with private funds. No one is in favor of taking existing lanes and converting them to HOT lanes, especially not the HOV lanes.
What we plan to do: I have the responsibility for two things: One, find the document I'm told exists where Fairfax County has come out in favor of converting the HOV lanes to HOT lanes. I've not seen this, but have read (and others have read)that it exists.
Two, I have to draw up a plan of action for discussion at our next meeting, which will be June 24.
The TAB has no real authority except what we take for ourselves. What I mean by that is, we can be proactive if we want, and as long as the Board of Supervisors doesn't tell us to cool it, we can continue. We're as effective as we try to be, basically. Our job is to bring transportation issues to the attention of the Board, which we do. HOT lanes is one of those issues.
What we plan to do is a little more research, get someone from VDOT in to talk about what plans they already have, and then write a report for submittal to the Board with a recommendation on what we would like to see done.
My personal view is that the I-95 HOV lanes have been, bar none, the most successful in the nation. The HOV lanes have contributed greatly to the growth of our County, both for better and for worse, and it is highly, highly unlikely that those lanes would ever be converted to HOT lanes. Having said that, however, it is something that we need to be prepared for, which is why we're working on it.
Happy HOV-ing! And have a great and safe holiday weekend.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2004 at 8:44am
'HOT Lanes' Could Be On Chopping Block
Monday May 31, 2004 3:45pm
Richmond (AP) - The Virginia Department of Transportation has flagged $602 million in highway projects that could be eliminated from the state's six-year construction plan, which takes effect July 1. "Obviously, with the need to cut $1.3 billion in funding for the six years, additional reductions will need to be made," warned VDOT Chief Financial Officer Barbara W. Reese.
Among spending reductions being considered:
$64 million to start work on high-occupancy vehicle lanes linking interstates 95 and 395 and the Capital Beltway through the Springfield Interchange in Fairfax County (website - news) .
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0504/150358.html
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Posted By: USA
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2004 at 1:21pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bob
[br]
'HOT Lanes' Could Be On Chopping Block
Monday May 31, 2004 3:45pm
Richmond (AP) - The Virginia Department of Transportation has flagged $602 million in highway projects that could be eliminated from the state's six-year construction plan, which takes effect July 1. "Obviously, with the need to cut $1.3 billion in funding for the six years, additional reductions will need to be made," warned VDOT Chief Financial Officer Barbara W. Reese.
Among spending reductions being considered:
$64 million to start work on high-occupancy vehicle lanes linking interstates 95 and 395 and the Capital Beltway through the Springfield Interchange in Fairfax County (website - news) .
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0504/150358.html
The writer of the article is confused. The $64 million was for preliminary work on Phase VIII of the Springfield Interchange, which would involve direct HOV (or HOT) ramps connecting the I-95/395 express lanes to proposed HOV (or HOT) lanes on the Beltway--in other words, no more needing to exit at Landmark or near Newington in order to get to the Beltway (and no need to take the local lanes in order to connect from the Beltway). The HOT project might still go forward even without those ramps, although it would seem to render enforcement more difficult.
The reason Phase VIII was originally dropped from the main Springfield Interchange project is that VDOT decided to defer it until (and unless) HOV/HOT lanes are built on the Beltway.
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