Split Horner AM 14th St/ Navy Yard-L'Enfant line
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Topic: Split Horner AM 14th St/ Navy Yard-L'Enfant line
Posted By: billchang2
Subject: Split Horner AM 14th St/ Navy Yard-L'Enfant line
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:17am
Proposal for splitting the 14th St/ Navy Yard-L'Enfant morning slug line at
Horner
Good morning sluggers!
With the lines growing each day I'd like to propose a split between the 14th St.
and Navy Yd/ L'Enfant (NY/L) slug lines.
The car split would be at the last turn all drivers now make with 14th St
drivers using the existing (East most) lane. NY/L drivers would bear to their
left at that last turn point to come up the 2nd row from the East.
The rider split would be into 2 lines with 14th St riders lining up to their
left and
NY/L riders lining up to their right.
Here's the link to the Google map. (You'll have to cut and paste- couldn't figure out how to turn HTML on- I apologize for the odd hooks at the path ends, there's something buggy about the line tools)
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=114370710675842379213.0004951856883e8bf1579&ll=38.65863,-77.282751&spn=0.001139,0.002406&t=h&z=19
One other option would be to have the NY/L riders line up in the crosshatch area
at the N end of the lines so they wouldn't need to cross traffic to board, but
that area may be too small to accomodate the queue.
I'm looking for any comments by Wed 11/17/10 noon in support of this proposal or
for alternatives. I would suggest we start the split next Monday 11/22 so we
can socialize the details. I will post on SLug-lines.com as well.
Thanks for your time.
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Replies:
Posted By: billchang2
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 9:08am
Modified Proposal for splitting and moving the 14th St/WNY-L'Enfant morning slug line(s) from Horner
Good morning sluggers!
I propose we move the lines down into the lot along the parked cars just like the other lines (Pentagon- CC- Roslyn). This is clearly a more efficient way to match/ dispatch as the communications take place between several drivers several riders at the same time.
Based on some feed back (including some from the Slug-Lines.com Webmaster, thanks) and some previous attempts on the part of several of us to change the line direction/ location, I've modified the proposal and clarified it on the map. (Slug-line users will need to copy and paste)
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=114370710675842379213.0004951856883e8bf1579&t=h&z=19
There was one comment about chaos for the drivers, but I believe they'll get it.
Again, I'm looking for any additonal comments by Wed 11/17/10 noon in support of this proposal or for alternatives. I would suggest we start the split next Monday 11/22. I will post on SLug-lines.com as well.
The best systems are a combination of order and chaos. (Someone must have said this in a more eloquent way.....
Thanks for your interest.
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Posted By: billchang2
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 9:45am
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We'll need help advertising this at the PM L'Enfant Line. Anyone willing to volunteer to print and/or distribute flyers or post a sign at the L'Enfant PM line?? Thanks
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Posted By: billchang2
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 8:22am
Overall the responses have largely favored the split. In order to get the word out and based on a recommendation by the Slug-Lines.com Webmaster, the proposed start date will be moved to Monday Nov 29th, 2010.
Comments are still welcome.
Thank you.
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Posted By: Salty
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 8:01am
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I would like to see this split also. My only concern is the way cars back up on Fridays waiting for slugs. The lane assignments look good to me for every other day.
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Posted By: billchang2
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 1:59pm
Gotten many comments, thanks. Response has been largely positive. We've taken
the suggestion(s) to leave (or move back) the 14th St line to the sidewalk.
We've also contacted Corey Stewart and Mike May about signage and perhaps a one
way/ do not enter to reduce any confusion, but that may take a while.
We're targeting Monday 11/29 to start.
Still looking for volunteers to print and distribute flyers (especially at
L'Enfant) and create signs.
Have a great weekend.
Here's the updated map.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=114370710675842379213.0004951856883e8bf1579&t=h&ll=38.658695,-77.282732&spn=0.000934,0.00192&z=19 - http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=114370710675842379213.0004951856883e8bf1579&t=h&ll=38.658695,-77.282732&spn=0.000934,0.00192&z=19
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Posted By: str8upjlc
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 1:20pm
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I love the idea and believe adding signs at the v area where the decision would need to be made as far as what line to enter in the morning to direct drivers for the first week or so would aid the process.
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Posted By: GeorgeML
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 11:47am
The split line this morning did not work very well at 6:25 AM. Drivers were confused.
Splitting the line also limits alternatives for riders willing to walk from Independence to the Metro or to Walk to LEnfant or to take a ride down Independence from 14th street.
Splitting the line provides limited space for the L'Enfant/Navy Yard Line. The cars must drive around the lot most of the way anyway to get there. Splitting the line also makes is more congested for those cars trying to get into the lot from the North side and now having to do a U-turn inside the lot.
I recommend keeping the lines together and emphasize that the callers should call out the first three cars rather than standing on the curb if a Navy Yard car is waiting for a rider. Cars typically do not have to wait if they are going to L'Enfant.
Splitting the lines just adds more congestiion to an aready cramped area and limits options for riders willing to take rides to either 14 and Independence or L'Enfant.
quote:
Originally posted by str8upjlc
I love the idea and believe adding signs at the v area where the decision would need to be made as far as what line to enter in the morning to direct drivers for the first week or so would aid the process.
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Posted By: ClaudiaS
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 1:30pm
I really like this change, but have to admit it was a bit of a confusion this moring. I will be printing out the flyer to advertise the change.
Having two lines one for 14 Street and another one for Navy Yard and L'Enfant makes sense for both Driver's and sluggers, I am definitely in favor.
Thanks for making this change.
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Posted By: GeorgeML
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 2:35pm
What is it that you specifically like about having two lines given the issues that I discussed in my previous post? What advantage is there for two lines in the limited area?
quote:
Originally posted by ClaudiaS
I really like this change, but have to admit it was a bit of a confusion this moring. I will be printing out the flyer to advertise the change.
Having two lines one for 14 Street and another one for Navy Yard and L'Enfant makes sense for both Driver's and sluggers, I am definitely in favor.
Thanks for making this change.
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Posted By: cmurray0
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 2:41pm
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I wanted to propose the very same thing because the slug line was getting way too long and a lot of riders are not good at calling out more than 2 cars at a time! Thank you for taking the time and energy to make this happen! I'd have to say that it didn't work too well this morning. Over time, I'm sure it'll work out. When I got to the L'Enfant line this morning, the riders did not know which way the line should go and were lined up backwards. Also, the drivers did not know where to go. I think a huge part of the problem was that the signs were way too small and low to the ground. I have good eye sight and had to walk right up to signs to read them... so I'm sure drivers couldn't see them until they got right up next to them. Another big problem is that cars who turn into the lot right where the line is and go straight back have to make a 3-point turn to face the right way. Eventually, they'll figure out that they should loop around rather than drive straight back. Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the "W" before "NY" when referring to Navy Yard? I found that a bit confusing as well. Let's try to continue this effort and see if it smooths out!
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Posted By: cmurray0
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 3:04pm
GeorgeML,
I understand where you are coming from. I'm sure this proposal would not have occurred if:
1. riders knew how to call out more than two cars at once
2. riders would let cars pull up when cars in front pull away
3. drivers would pull up when cars in front pull away. Sometimes they just sit there waiting for slow pokes to walk up.
Without the calling process being efficient, the line is too long. In the past two years I have gone from waiting 10 minutes at the most to waiting 15-20+ minutes minimum. I think people were willing to take other routes because of the length of the line and the wait. If they can take other routes because they are just as convenient or don't mind walking then they can choose the shorter line.
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Posted By: billchang2
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2010 at 5:40am
Well it worked great some of the time.... (and not so great at others). The comments here and on e-slug@yahoo have been largely positive so I suggest we keep going.
Action items:
1. We need for everyone to spread the word.
2. If you're a rider, please stand in the appropriate line or spend a couple minutes at the split diverting drivers to the left or right.
3. If you're a driver, please bear left at the split and stop at WNY/L'Enfant pickuppoint in the lot.
Regarding the signs, I asked for volunteers for the signs and no one stepped up. When I checked yesterday, two of the three signs were broken and left on the ground. We've asked the Board of Supervisors and VDOT for assistance with permanent signs and lanes.
On yestyerday:
When the cars went left and right, the slugs followed.
It was an unusually light day at 6:30.
It will be better when we have lots of cars and riders and the matchups. Tuesday's are usually very busy.
Thanks.
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Posted By: cynadm
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2010 at 7:44am
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The line this morning for NY/L'Enfant was extremely long and may present a hazard to fellow slugs, as it extended into the through lanes. Won't it make more sense to split NY and L'Enfant into two separate lines? Make 14th st and L'Enfant one line and NY it's own line. I either take Independence or L'Enfant, whichever comes first but now I have to commit to one line. Just my two cents.
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Posted By: Tiberius
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2010 at 1:13pm
HORNER ROAD PEOPLE - WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THE PREVIOUS 1 lines system. The new Horner road breakout into 2 lines was not a well though out idea. I did not speak to any one who though the splitting of the lines was a good idea. It has created mass confusion. Also, you still have cars going in both direction in the parking lot (unsafe). Also, you have this large line of people standing in the parking lot and nobody on the sidewalk which was more logical to all. If anyone says that it is an overwhelming success, I would suggest they stop by tomorrow morning and take an objective look and talk to the people in line. Again, for the last 2 days I have spoken to many people and I have overheard many negative comments. Although this is not a scientific method, I do believe the overwhelming majority prefer the old method. The only person who may favor the new method is probably the individual who suggested the change. I am sure they meant well, but unfortunately the change is a mess. I vote to return to the method that was working.
Tiberius
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Posted By: riverotter2
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2010 at 1:45pm
I agree with GeorgeML and think we should keep the line exactly as it has been. I see no benefit to the proposal.
If the person submitting the proposal doesn't like the way people call out cars, then ask the person behind you in line to hold your place and go up and show us all how you think we should call cars. Maybe some good demonstrations is all we need to improve the current process.
I split my time between being a driver and being a slug. As both, I think the proposal to change is a bad idea and probably comes from a slug who only goes to the Navy Yard. As a slug, I like the option of 14th and Independence vs L'Enfant. I also prefer the safety of standing on a sidewalk in line as opposed to lining up arbitrarily in front of parked cars. As a driver, I like the same destination option with the addition of other stops along 14th; especially on Friday when slugs are light. Monday also presents fewer slugs but not nearly as bad as Friday.
I arrived this morning as a slug after being on vacation for some time and knew nothing about this proposal. To assume people familiar with the slugging system check this website on a regular basis is not fair. To assume a handful of positive responses speak for the majority when hundreds of people slug from this line is also not fair.
I do not believe the person behind this proposal is acting on the voice of the majority. I also do not believe the person who is responsible to this website should have made any changes without a response from the majority. A lack of a response is not a vote for the proposal.
I ignored the new line this morning and was able to get a ride to L'Enfant immediately in the line now designated for 14th St. The driver and his passenger also thought the new proposal was a very bad idea given the volume of cars that service this line. He knew nothing of the proposal except what I was able to convey by talking to the people in the bogus line. So what kind of effort did the person behind this propsal make to get by in from the majority? By splitting the lines the proposal will be causing major traffic congestion and jeopardizing the flow of traffic the way the lot was designed.
I believe the person behind this proposal is acting on his own accord and should stop imposing his idea on people until he has solid support that he can prove with numbers.
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Posted By: riverotter2
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2010 at 2:01pm
Splitting the Navy Yard and L'Enfant is a bad idea because a lot of Navy Yard drivers will take L'Enfant slugs if they can't get any for the Navy Yard.
I really think our system wasn't broken and billchang2 is pushing forward without majority consensus. When I attempt to assemble a
PRO vs CON list I show nothing on the PRO side.
quote:
Originally posted by cynadm
The line this morning for NY/L'Enfant was extremely long and may present a hazard to fellow slugs, as it extended into the through lanes. Won't it make more sense to split NY and L'Enfant into two separate lines? Make 14th st and L'Enfant one line and NY it's own line. I either take Independence or L'Enfant, whichever comes first but now I have to commit to one line. Just my two cents.
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Posted By: cmurray0
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2010 at 5:22pm
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This morning was much better than yesterday. However, after seeing it run more efficiently, I think the location of the N.Y./L'E line is unsafe. Slugs are crossing in front of cars to get in line. Drivers are stopping as they enter by the front of the line to ask where to go causing a backup in the main road. It's difficult to turn around if drivers enter at the same lane as the slug line. A collision is bound to happen if cars from both lines pull out at the same time. At first I was interested in the split, but now I think its more trouble than its worth. My wait time didn't lessen at all today.
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Posted By: RIMZ98
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 9:43am
You are right, cmurray0, splitting the lines did NOT work as GeorgeML, riverotter02, and Tiberius has stated in their post.
I appreciate the thought to improve the Horner lot slug line, but there was never a need to fix it as the process was never broke.
This morning, if I had not been paying attention to an SUV that entered through the WNY/L'Enfant entrance, then backed up to make a U-turn to turnaround pick up the slugs, there is a chance I could have been in an accident.
As of today, I honestly have not heard a positive thing about the split from WNY / L'Enfant slugs.
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Posted By: VNorman
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 11:32am
I agree that this was a bad idea. It was also rushed and poorly advertised. Many of us don't use e-slug and were left in the dark about the change or where to leave feedback when we did hear of it. Of all the people I've spoken with about this over the past 2 weeks, only 1 thought the split would be an improvement. Drivers have said they don't want to have to come around from the other side of the lot, and as a slug I feel less safe in the new line.
It's true that some slugs aren't good about walking along the line of cars to yell out destinations, but maybe there's another solution. For instance, having the head of the slug line start at the curb a few yards down from the sidewalk near the first parking space (approximately where the 2nd or 3rd car in line would stop). The slugs could line up along the curb toward the sidewalk, then the line would curve around onto the sidewalk as usual. That would put a dozen or more slugs closer to the cars without having them cross in front of the cars, and make it easier for those at the head of the line to walk down the line of cars and still be heard. Whatever the solution is, I think it should be discussed more before being implemented.
VNorman
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Posted By: Salty
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 7:39am
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I love the split. However I am a 14th street slug. I would hate to see the lines join back together.
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Posted By: riverotter2
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 10:11am
cmurray0 has stated, "My wait time didn't lessen at all today."
Splitting the lines is not going to lessen anyones wait times. It does limit your options.
Your individual wait time is predicated on the number of people in front of you that share the same destination.
Case in point... If there are 20 people in line all going to 14th ST or Navy Yard and the 21st person that arrives in line is going to L'Enfant. The 21st person is the first person in line for L'Enfant.
This morning the driver I rode in with was very upset about the split. She looks for slugs going to either L'Enfant or 14th St, but prefers L'Enfant. She said she would not be happy driving up the L'Enfant line only to find out everyone is Navy Yard and then have to leave that line to get back in line for 14th St. She will pick up slugs at Potomac Mills before dealing with the split lines.
So now we risk loosing drivers because of this unnecessary split.
quote:
Originally posted by cmurray0
This morning was much better than yesterday. However, after seeing it run more efficiently, I think the location of the N.Y./L'E line is unsafe. Slugs are crossing in front of cars to get in line. Drivers are stopping as they enter by the front of the line to ask where to go causing a backup in the main road. It's difficult to turn around if drivers enter at the same lane as the slug line. A collision is bound to happen if cars from both lines pull out at the same time. At first I was interested in the split, but now I think its more trouble than its worth. My wait time didn't lessen at all today.
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Posted By: VNorman
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 12:02pm
That makes sense. Nothing changed for 14th St riders except it's harder to get a ride with L'Enfant drivers. Unfortunately, the other 2/3 of us are now dodging traffic, watching for line jumpers, and explaining to frustrated drivers that this wasn't our idea.
quote:
Originally posted by Salty
I love the split. However I am a 14th street slug. I would hate to see the lines join back together.
VNorman
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Posted By: ClaudiaS
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 9:35am
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Instead of complaining about the new system give it a change and help both sluggers and drivers to line up correctly. The system works better every day and both lines are moving much quicker.
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Posted By: riverotter2
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 2:34pm
L'ENFANT SLUGS AND DRIVERS - REVERT BACK TO THE FORMER LINE TUESDAY DEC 14. TELL YOUR DRIVERS ON MONDAY.
As noted by VNorman, "Why are you dodging traffic, watching for line jumpers and explaining to frustrated drivers that this wasn't our idea?"
Check out the profile for billchang2. He is a self serving Navy Yard slug looking for a ride to the Navy Yard with the least amount of hassle. Per his coworkers, he claims if he is in the back of the line, he can't hear if the first car is Navy Yard. Come on billchang2, if a car is sitting with no riders, you are well informed by fellow slugs of that car's destination as you proceed to the back of the line. If that process didn't work, you can use your voice to ask.
Check out billchang2's profile on this site. He unsuccessfully attempted the same line split in May 2004 and March 2007. Now he is at it again.
If the Navy Yard slugs don't want to be part of the former line, that's fine. Let them create their own line but leave us L'Enfant slugs and drivers out of it!
The only reason he has dragged the L'Enfant slugs and drivers into his private plan is to ensure the Navy Yard drivers options for L'Enfant when there aren't enough Navy people to ride. The only thing Billchang2 cares about, is taking care of himself and his Navy Yard buddies. He doesn't care that he has eliminated 14th St options for L'Enfant slugs and drivers. I am sure he is feeling very smug right now.
I propose all L'Enfant slugs and drivers revert back to the former line on Tuesday Dec 14. Alert your drivers on Monday of the plan. The drivers will follow. Like all of us, they want to get to work with minimum hassle and have maximum options for that to happen.
There are still a lot of L'Enfant drivers queueing in the former line.
Those of you who agree, please print fliers and distribute them to fellow L'Enfant slugs and drivers. Very few of us visit this website and a lot of us don't even know about it. billchang2 has been operating heavily on the Navy Yard slug site. I guess that is where he claims he got his affirmative votes.
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Posted By: Salty
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2010 at 7:26am
Since the split; I am enjoying not have a crowded long line to wait in. I am enjoying not having to constantly shout back to the end of the line for a Navy Yard slug to walk all the way up to the car holding up the rest of the line.
I never really had a problem with L'Enfant slugs. They are usually near the front of the line. I would like to see some alternatives to joining the lines back together. Is the anywhere else 14th or NY & L'Enfant can line up.
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Posted By: wilkinak
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2010 at 8:20am
GO BACK TO A SINGLE LINE.
What happened this morning? I was thrilled on Friday to see that the lines had recombined. This morning, split again. As a rider, the split sucks. I use the Navy Yard line to go to Maritime Plaza (way the heck down M St by the I-295 ramp), and my prefered alternate route if I can't get a ride in is 14th St, not L'enfant. Easier for me to pick up Blue line at Indpendence to Eastern Market, & a nicer walk. Not an option with split lines. I'm not all happy with having to stand in the middle of a dark parking lot when a perfectly good sidewalk is steps away. Lots more traffic in that area than the Rosslyn line has.
As a driver, the New N.Y. line is cumbersome at best. 2 lanes of outbound and 1 lane of inbound is nuts. I will pick up at the Pentagon line if this continues - much easier to deal with.
SPLITTING THE LINES DOESN'T CHANGE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE GOING TO OR DRIVING TO A DESTINATION (Well, the number driving will decrease). THIS WAS A STUPID IDEA.
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Posted By: LaEnfantBound
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2010 at 9:49am
To say the effort was unsuccessful because there was confusion is a bit premature since only 1 week was allowed. By that logic we should not have returned to the previous way as there was an equal amount of confusion introduced by going back to the old way.
The ONLY negative aspect I can underastand is the comment about standing by parked cars rather than the sidewalk. Other than than, considering how few people knew about the change, I did not see that big a problem.. What I got was a week of getting rides sooner and not having to strive to hear the calle from 7 cars back.
My $.02
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Posted By: Blkjewelz8960
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2010 at 10:19am
This idea was not well thought out or planned from the very beginning. It did not have rider/driver buy-in. I, for one, did not/do not agree with the split.
As a driver, I have the option if I want to take someone to another destination than the one I am going. While I drive to the Navy Yard daily, I will take others to L'Enfant and even 14th and Penn if I am in a rush to get to the Yard. With the line split that option no longer exists.
With the winter months approaching, you will probably find more riders willing to go wherever the first car is going to get out of the cold. They no longer have that option to catch the quickest ride and hope metro because of the split.
For safety and better line options, we need to REVERT BACK to the normal way of things. ONE LINE
~"When you have eliminated all which is impossible then whatever
remains, however Improbable, must be the truth."~ Sherlock Holmes
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Posted By: Blkjewelz8960
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2010 at 10:23am
I suspect some forget not everyone is on the Slug-Lines website nor do they receive the e-slug emails thus the split led to confusion.[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by LaEnfantBound
To say the effort was unsuccessful because there was confusion is a bit premature since only 1 week was allowed. By that logic we should not have returned to the previous way as there was an equal amount of confusion introduced by going back to the old way.
The ONLY negative aspect I can underastand is the comment about standing by parked cars rather than the sidewalk. Other than than, considering how few people knew about the change, I did not see that big a problem.. What I got was a week of getting rides sooner and not having to strive to hear the calle from 7 cars back.
My $.02
~"When you have eliminated all which is impossible then whatever
remains, however Improbable, must be the truth."~ Sherlock Holmes
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Posted By: quelinost
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2010 at 10:46am
I do not support the splitting of the lines. You end up having people crossing the road where the 14th street cars wait. Cars picking up lefant and navy yard have to turn around at the back of the parking lot. Splitting the slug lines does not save anybody time...the location and length of the line are 'independent' of how many cars are picking up.
Leaving the lines combined atleast has everybody waiting on the sidewalk and the navy yard folks have the option of jumping in a l'efant car if necessary.
The false hope of seeing a shorter slug line is just that...false
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Posted By: Blkjewelz8960
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2010 at 1:07pm
No that is not the only negative. The negative is OPTIONS are taken away. The line won't be shorter just the appearance that it is because it is now split.
quote:
Originally posted by LaEnfantBound
To say the effort was unsuccessful because there was confusion is a bit premature since only 1 week was allowed. By that logic we should not have returned to the previous way as there was an equal amount of confusion introduced by going back to the old way.
The ONLY negative aspect I can underastand is the comment about standing by parked cars rather than the sidewalk. Other than than, considering how few people knew about the change, I did not see that big a problem.. What I got was a week of getting rides sooner and not having to strive to hear the calle from 7 cars back.
My $.02
~"When you have eliminated all which is impossible then whatever
remains, however Improbable, must be the truth."~ Sherlock Holmes
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Posted By: TR025
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2010 at 4:36pm
All
While we're all resistant to change, the split makes a lot of sense and actually works well. The new L'Enfant line moved quickly and with little confusion. With the onset of winter, less time standing in line is a good thing, no?
Perhaps we can adjust the lines to a L'Enfant only line and an all others line.
On a separate note, for those who slug, please don't walk across the dirt/mud before you get into a car...please...
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Posted By: Blkjewelz8960
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2010 at 11:13pm
Not resistant to change when there is nothing wrong with the OLD system. Nor does it make sense to split into a L'Enfant only line. I go to the Navy Yard but take people to L'Efant and sometimes even 14th Street to make it to work. It is an OPTION that is null and void with the split. As it is with riders who may opt to go to another destination other than their original one just to get to a metro to make it to work.quote:
Originally posted by TR025
All
While we're all resistant to change, the split makes a lot of sense and actually works well. The new L'Enfant line moved quickly and with little confusion. With the onset of winter, less time standing in line is a good thing, no?
Perhaps we can adjust the lines to a L'Enfant only line and an all others line.
On a separate note, for those who slug, please don't walk across the dirt/mud before you get into a car...please...
~"When you have eliminated all which is impossible then whatever
remains, however Improbable, must be the truth."~ Sherlock Holmes
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Posted By: lfmsi
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 9:51am
The horner road slug line is fine as it is. Today was the perfect example on how confusing this is for the riders and the cars. Sluggers were yelling and cursing one another and the cars were going thru both lines. The line becomes one after 7 anyway. I think this is a bad proposal and it has enlongated the comute with the confusion. If you want seperate lines go to potomac.quote:
Originally posted by billchang2
Proposal for splitting the 14th St/ Navy Yard-L'Enfant morning slug line at
Horner
Good morning sluggers!
With the lines growing each day I'd like to propose a split between the 14th St.
and Navy Yd/ L'Enfant (NY/L) slug lines.
The car split would be at the last turn all drivers now make with 14th St
drivers using the existing (East most) lane. NY/L drivers would bear to their
left at that last turn point to come up the 2nd row from the East.
The rider split would be into 2 lines with 14th St riders lining up to their
left and
NY/L riders lining up to their right.
Here's the link to the Google map. (You'll have to cut and paste- couldn't figure out how to turn HTML on- I apologize for the odd hooks at the path ends, there's something buggy about the line tools)
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=114370710675842379213.0004951856883e8bf1579&ll=38.65863,-77.282751&spn=0.001139,0.002406&t=h&z=19
One other option would be to have the NY/L riders line up in the crosshatch area
at the N end of the lines so they wouldn't need to cross traffic to board, but
that area may be too small to accomodate the queue.
I'm looking for any comments by Wed 11/17/10 noon in support of this proposal or
for alternatives. I would suggest we start the split next Monday 11/22 so we
can socialize the details. I will post on SLug-lines.com as well.
Thanks for your time.
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Posted By: bacano
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 2:45pm
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splitting the line in two is a great idea and is already working, altough some people are still confused.. lets stick with it, and make sure everybody knows how to work it.
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Posted By: Gerald Mays
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2010 at 5:18am
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I don't care for the split. It's inconvenient for lots of folks who could choose between a ride down Independence vs. a ride to L'Enfant. There are plenty of us who were in that 50/50 group. For us the wait is longer now.
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Posted By: jklevasseur
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2010 at 8:33am
I'm with Gerald on this one. I no longer have options like getting in the cars I know go down Independence and would drop me in front of my building on a cold morning. I have to go to the L'Enfant line to have any hope of having a shorter walk. And as the occasional driver, if nobody wants to go to L'Enfant or Independence when I pull up, I'll go anywhere just to get into the city!
As other sluggers and I were discussing, the length of the line is not the issue. It's the fact that people slow it down by either not calling out locations loud enough, or people in line just not paying attention. NOTHING will fix that. For safety concerns and just a thousand other reasons, we really need to revert back to the single-line concept.
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Posted By: PDenny
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 8:33am
Hello all.
I am in favor of the lines being split. I see the benefits and with the winter weather upon us the snow will be falling and this will definitely help. Last year when we couldn't walk through the grass it made things really confusing because the line got switched around. By keeping them separate it could help in decreasing some of that confusion.
However, I do suggest that the L'Enfant line be turned around. In it's current state it is not as efficient as it can be. By turning the line around so that the first person in line will be the first person to greet a car would make it the same as it's always been. Also it would allow for the flexibility of moving cars up that do not have an available rider at that time. Simply put the line will move better. I propose we try this starting this Monday Dec 13th.
Thank you and have a Great Holiday season.
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Posted By: LaEnfantBound
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 11:47am
Every day this week was different for me....one dasy split, next day not split, next day combned...today split
?????????????????
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Posted By: Tina55
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 1:51pm
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The split make perfect sense and works great. My wait time has been reduced quite a bit. Don't understand why people are complaining.
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Posted By: Tina55
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 1:57pm
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To everyone complaining that they no longer have options beause of the split! Many of the 14 Street sluggers or drivers could also go to 18 th Street. They don't have the options of getting into one line and choosing. Sluggers or drivers have to make a choice every day and hope they choose the line that moves quickest.
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Posted By: Paul67
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 2:14pm
quote:
Originally posted by bacano
splitting the line in two is a great idea and is already working, altough some people are still confused.. lets stick with it, and make sure everybody knows how to work it.
I am with bacano. Great idea, let's stick with it and make sure everyone knows how it works.
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Posted By: gtivr6ps
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2010 at 3:04pm
Seems like most people responding are riders...as a driver I will give my .02 cents FWIW....
For the most part it has been ok. I just need to get into the city and always loved the option of pulling up and choosing 14th and L first, and if no one was going there could switch to L'Enfant. That is now a little harder.
One day last week the line of cars was extremely long. I come in from telegraph Rd and generally pull in at the first right and go along the whole back side of the parking lot to pick up. This day I sat there for almost 10 minutes before I realized all the cars in line were for Navy Yard or L'Enfant!!! No cars were in the 14th street at all.
Could I drive further up and turn right where the line meets? OF course, but with the "new line-up" I feel its and elevated risk of something happening. Now I would have to pull in and stay to the right ensuring I dont hit anyone crossing over or cars who are waiting. And if someone halfway turns down the new L'Enfant line, they are now blocking my access to get people for 14th causing further issues if anyone pulls in behind me.
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Posted By: presto34
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2010 at 9:17am
I'm in favor of the new split. The old way is just way too long of a wait to get a ride. For those who don't like the new split I can understand why all the big fuss. Even if you like the option of going to L'Enfant or 14th your wait time would still be less if you were to move from one line to the next.
The only reason this is seen a a bad idea is because people are still getting use to it. But there is no doubt that the lines need to be split up. I have waited for a ride to 14th St. at times for 25 min all because the all drivers are going to Navy Yard therefore holding up the cars behind it that are going to 14th.
I say leave the lines split and move the 14th street line up closer to the pentagon line near the small parking lot on horner Rd side. Therefore the lines a far enough apart that there should be no traffic issues.
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Posted By: LJD
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2010 at 10:35am
I'm against the split. I've driven it and ridden from it now, and it is definitely NOT shorter for me.
1. As a rider, I now do not have the option of either 14th or L'Enfant. I have to choose before getting in line.
2. As a rider, the length of the line ONLY DEPENDS ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN FRONT OF YOU GOING TO THE SAME DESTINATION. I cannot understand why many people don't get this.
3. As a driver going to 14th, I've been stuck behind a bunch of cars waiting to go to LE/WNY, and couldn't even get to the 14th street line, when there were poeple waiting for a ride. This is also bad as a rider.
4. As a driver, the lot is now very congested when cars back up and there is much more potential for car-to-car or car-to-pedestrian contact since the new line location blocks easy left turns to the 14th line, and can force the car line well into the parking lot.
I suggest we go back to one line (which was the case this morning) and as slugs be sure that the front riders are walking the car line and calling out destinations. Also, please put out the word to WNY riders that if there is a car waiting at the front, it is pretty much always waiting for a WNY rider - no mystery.
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Posted By: stewy1
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2010 at 10:44am
What happen to the splitting of the lines this morning? Only one line this morning, with a sign stating one line! I'm in favor of the split. Let's stick with in!
stewy1
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Posted By: Kathi
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2010 at 11:37am
I think this is an excellent idea as was disappointed to see that it wasn't in effect this morning, Dec. 13. I would suggest one change that might work better.
I think the L'Ef and Navy Yard line should be in the "original" line and the 14th St. line should be the new line. This past week showed that the L'Ef/NY lines are definitely long, and if the cars go the orignal route they will be accommodated better.
I think it's worth trying it that way.
My other suggestion would be to put BIG signs at the back of the parking lot indicating "go right" for L'Ef and Navy Yard and "go left" for 14th line.
KMc.
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Posted By: Salty
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2010 at 12:25pm
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Im a little bitter about the lines being joined back together. As a driver and a rider is it much preffered for me to have the lines split. There are too many people in this line. Both the driver line and the slug line are ridiculous. The only reason why these lines are combined is because some people like to have the choice on whether to get into a Lenfant car or a independence car. Well I really dont care about those people. I dont have a choice why should you.
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Posted By: slug123456789
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2010 at 3:44pm
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Just to get clarification, the line is now one not two? I use this line on occasion and want to make sure I don't make a mistake.
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Posted By: Salty
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 7:34am
Yes the line is back to one. Which means on a day like today when it is 20 dgrees and windy, you dont need to wait for a car to go to Independence or Lenfant. You can hop in a car that is going to New York and get out at Independence there by screwing over the next guy inline that actually needs to go to New York. So the Guy that needs to go to New York gets to wait for the next 5 Independence cars to roll by before a NY comes his way.
Cold and sad about the lines joining back together[:(]
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Posted By: billchang2
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:01am
I'm a little partial but I believe we should keep the split as is. We actually had it split for two weeks and most cars and riders got used to the split because it was largely beneficial in terms of reduced wait times.
No split or join scheme is going to change the number of cars or slugs on any given day and it has been a weird couple weeks.
The only reason it's confusing is that traffic is being blocked by a driver with a car to enforce going back to the single line. I suspect that when that car is gone it will revert to the split.
Given the preference to only take the time to comment negatively in the first two weeks, we are now seeing a fair number of comments in support of the split here.
While there's still talk of a summit and a brown bag and some ballot or poll, controlling this line/ process will always be a challenge. If these events do take place there's really no way to determine that the "popular solution" will actually be enacted and supported unless someone chooses to become a self appointed enforcer.
I still believe that the best thing to do is to get out of the way let it sort itself out. The cars will go where the slugs line up. Slugging works and migrates through a natural selection like process; it shouldn't have to be enforced.
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Posted By: Paul67
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:10am
quote:
Originally posted by Salty
Yes the line is back to one. Which means on a day like today when it is 20 dgrees and windy, you dont need to wait for a car to go to Independence or Lenfant. You can hop in a car that is going to New York and get out at Independence there by screwing over the next guy inline that actually needs to go to New York. So the Guy that needs to go to New York gets to wait for the next 5 Independence cars to roll by before a NY comes his way.
Cold and sad about the lines joining back together[:(]
First of all any New York Driver's will tell you we HATE to take Independence riders. I will make it a point not to take any Independence riders going forward, since apparently you all don't have any consideration for 14 Street driver's or Riders.
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Posted By: Claudia
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:15am
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I am very unhappy about the lines joining back together.
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Posted By: kmartens
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 12:05pm
It is unbelievable that there is this guy sitting in his car blocking the split of the two lines with his cute little sign. Give me a break!!! Nothing wrong with splitting lines I will be driving to L'enfant on Thursday and will be picking up with the split lines even if I have to drive around the clown attempting to block the L'enfant/navy yard line. I recommend other l'enfant navy yard drivers do the same! Just drive around the guy blocking the l'enfant/navy yard line if you are in favor of splitting lines.
All of the drivers I ride with to L'enfant and even navy yard drivers are in favor of the split have not heard one comment IN PERSON abut being not in favor of splitting lines. KEEP THEM SPLIT!!
Split the 14th st and l'fnt Navy yard lines!!!
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Posted By: luv2slugg
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 1:08pm
I agree -- we should keep the split. I have been slugging over 20 years now and have never experienced the problems we’re presently having. My problem with the one line is that it's entirely too long and the people up front were either too timid or too lazy to call out LOUDLY for the people in the back to hear. One driver actually came out of the line and drove to the back of the slugline to ask for 14th St. people because the people in front, (obviously non-14th-streeters), would not call out. I was truly thankful for that because I was one of those people in the back, standing in the rain, waiting. Because of the rain and the traffic, it’s sometimes impossible to hear. If the location of the current split doesn’t work for most, what about another location, like directly across the street from the current line? That lot fills quickly and it has lots of room for cars to maneuver in and out. I think the lines should remain split. Any thoughts?
ForeverrSlugggerr
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Posted By: slug123456789
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 1:38pm
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Has it been considered that the line of cars could remain one line but have 2 lines of people standing side by side? 1 line of people for l'fnt and Navy Yard (or whatever) and the other line for everyone else? Just a thought but I would not recommend moving the line to the opposite side of the street because it would be hard for drivers to get out after picking up slugs. The road is packed in the am with people trying to get in and parked. In theory the 2 lines separate as was attempted to be done sounded good but it must be consistent. Maybe try it again towards spring/summer when the am is not so dark and people can see a lot better, getting people used to it. I think people might have more patience when they are not growing icicles.
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Posted By: gtivr6ps
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 2:25pm
Were any other locations considered? My feeling is the location of the split is horrible and will continue to escalate a traffic nightmare within the lot. It is a bottleneck of both cars and people and can/will continue to cause confusion and possible accidents.
Were the locations that I have show here in the pic considered? It just makes more sense to split them further apart from each other in the hopes to eliviate congestion (BOTH drivers and riders) PLease excuse the 3rd grade look to it...Paint skills are minimal.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b282/gtivr6ps/ParkingLot.jpg
My observation is that WNY and L'Enfant have the highest number of drivers and riders. I may be wrong, but I am sure someone can attest to the situation. If that is the case, then keep L'Enfant/WNY were the line has always been and move 14th Street to one of the locations I have circled or vice versa(BAsically move the smaller of the lines away). Not only does this split the line, it will diminish the traffic congestion in the current bottle neck, and allow for those drivers that have a "choice" between Independence and L'Enfant to scan the line while passing by and make a decision as to drive inthat line or move to the next.
Not a sermon, just a thought (or my perspective)
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Posted By: cmurray0
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 5:35pm
I'm pretty ticked off now that I know that the guy blocking the split is not Mr. Chang reacting to feedback. It's some selfish jerk! GET OUT OF THE WAY and let this sort itself out. Whether you are for or against the split, what you are doing is selfish and childish.
And by the way... for those who say the wait depends on the # of same destinations in front of you are WRONG. A single line will increase time because you have to wait for other destinations to get in one or two at a time and go. Waiting for these cars to get filled then pull away = more time standing in the cold.
I know I posted very early on about the split being unsafe and the wait was just as long. I was giving feedback way too soon. Once everyone got into the groove it cut my wait time in half. Yeah, its not 100% safe... but haven't the lines in the first lot been standing in the road for years?
Please don't be selfish and argue to keep a single line just because you are lucky enough to be able to choose between a couple of destinations... not everyone has this convenience. Everybody in the freezing cold single line was ticked off this morning. LET'S GET THAT GUY OUT OF THE WAY and let the majority decide.
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Posted By: kmartens
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 5:53pm
Sorry for my earlier rant, but that guy just really got to me this morning when I pulled up at 6:30am to go down the L'Enfant/navy yard line.
Sure there was a little confusion at first when lines split but some people do not slug/pick up everyday; and certainly not everyone checks this site daily weekly or even monthly (or EVER i'm sure). It will take time to work itself out but splitting the lines is clearly the better option for the majority of sluggers/drivers. Of course there will be people opposed and statistically speaking a MUCH higher percentage of the people who are opposed will come on here as to the ones who are fine with the split. If they are indifferent or like it they are less likely to spend their time to come on here to give their opinion. Just saying.[8D]
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Posted By: bobbrannon
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 10:47am
I just posted a comment/question on this subject somewhere else on this blog site and then I found the topic thread with everything I needed right here!
This morning at 7 there was some confusion among both drivers and riders regarding the new split. I'm a Lenfant driver with no preference for which system works best. But here's the problem with doing it the way we are right now - drivers can't see the queue until they get close to the split. That means the queue backs way up, especially if you're late, as in 7, and drivers just don't know where to go or what to do until it gets even later, and more difficult for everyone.
Seems to me we should give some thought to alternative locations - as several have already suggested - rather than continue with a split line. Meanwhile, I'll happily defer to the more experienced among you and continue to support as best I can.
Bob
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Posted By: JOEVA22191
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 11:19am
This whole idea has been one massive goat-rope from the outset.
Nobody knew it was comming, riders or drivers. it goes from 1 to 2 lines everyother day
Cars from the navy yard line pulling out run into the 14th st cars comingout in AND cars pulling into the lot itself by the busstop AND pedestrians(riders)crossing the lot to get into whatever line(s) exist today.
stick with the original one line. we're only going to work, after all, what's the rush?
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 1:01pm
We had a similar problem going home with the Bob's/RV line at Constitution Ave. Because there were far more cars going to Bob's, the RV people would be at the front of the line. RV riders would wave the car on, the driver had no idea where the first Bob's rider was in line and would go to the back of the line to pick up riders. We asked RV riders to relay the destination back so we could get to the car quicker, but they were sporadic in complying with our request.
Back in the 90s, a gentlemen asked all Bob's riders to take one step to the right. He announced there would be two lines at this location. If the RV riders wanted to catch a ride to Bob's, they needed to go to the back of the Bob's line. The RV riders were upset and tried for several days to get it back to a single line. But if a Bob's rider saw one line, we would ask where people were going. If anyone said Bob's, we formed a separate line. The drivers love it because riders get into the cars much quicker.
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Posted By: slug123456789
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 1:36pm
Okay, this is likely going to be long so sorry in advance.
The Crystal City, Pentagon, and Rosslyn lines are all separate. The CC and Ros lines are in the parking lot. The slugs line up along the parking lane and cars drive down whichever line they want. The Pentagon is of course at the curb next to the bus stop. This current situation is no different than what the split of the 14St line is trying to do. Pedestrians are everywhere. Cars are going every which direction and it works fine. People and cars figure it out. I think it is absolutely ridiculous of people saying that the cars are going to be "hitting" other cars (or whatever), that the lines are too close. Please!! I have seen where the proposed line is supposed to be and there is plenty of room for people to line up and a car to pull along. The DRIVER needs to LOOK where they are going. It is as simple as that, no more, no less. The DRIVER should go SLOWLY as it pulls out so it can react if it sees something. My God!! What a concept. Driving slow is a "new invention" called not applying the gas and having your foot hover over the brake JUST IN CASE. Duh!! Folks, this is not hard. I think most of you went to college and beyond so let’s use our brains for something other than playing solitaire on the cell phone. Okay? If the Pentagon, CC and Ros lines can be separate, then so can 14st. Those lines are close enough together that slugs can see how many cars are waiting vs. how many people and they can make a decision on which line they want to get into. If someone is going to CC but there are no cars, and the Pentagon does have cars, then that person can walk the few feet over and get into a car. Stop harping on this and the person in charge needs to make a decision on yea or nay to the split. If a car is blocking the lane to the new Navy line, call the police and tow the car! Once the lines are split and people have been doing it for months to years, it will be routine and familiar. Make a choice and stick with it. The other lines were one line once upon a time and figured out how to separate. 14st can do it too!!! [:D][8D]
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Posted By: wisdumseeker76
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 2:18pm
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The matter you of the lines going from one line to two lines every other day has been happening all week. When I arrive at the lot, which is between 6:50 and 7:05 am, I have noticed a vehicle and sign blocking the area recently designated for L'enfant/Navy slugees/slugers. Monday, there were two gentlemen sitting in the vehicle, and shortly after I was diverted to go to the initial line to pick-up for L'enfant, I turned and the vehicle and sign were gone. This confused several people who were not there earlier enough to see the vehicle and sign. Therefore, the cars arriving after the vehicle had departed, proceeded to go to the newly appointed L'enfant line and was able to pick up slugers going to L'enfant before the cars that had arrived earlier, but was now stuck in the old line. This was merely caused by the redirection to the normal line. It caused major confusion. I am not that familiar with the organizational structure of slugging, so I'm wondering if the gentlemen were self-appointed. The same scenario occurred again on Tuesday. I say all this to say, I prefer the two lines to remain split. The split-line method has been very effective and efficient. I agree with slug123456789, FIGURE IT OUT!!! Change is the only thing constant, so learn to strategically adapt.
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Posted By: 2ndGenSlug
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 2:22pm
This continues to cause confusion and chaos.
Unlike the Pentagon/Crystal City/Rosslyn lines, the lane identified for Navy Yard/L'Enfant Plaza is quite short. Today was the third morning that I have witnessed the new line backing up so far that folks going to the original line couldn't get to it.
As a long time slug, who occassionally drives, and who has been a rider and passenger from almost every line in the system, both in and out of the 'burbs, I have seen many changes to the lines over time. This is by far the most chaotic, most disruptive, least safe, and least beneficial change.
I strongly encourage going back to one line.
The only change I would recommend making is to have the cars and riders line up facing the same direction - instead of opposed to each other. This has a few benefits:
1. This reduces the distance riders have to walk to a vehicle when lines are long and consequently reduces the wait time for other riders and drivers alike;
2. It's easier for multiple vehicles to be loaded simultaneously, again reducing wait time for rides and drivers; and
3. Riders can better hear the caller because they are not up against the road where passing buses and cars make it difficult to hear.
However, keeping the line the way it was before Thanksgiving works well too. This changing from 1 - 2 days, day to day and even within the same morning is confusing and unsafe.
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Posted By: dkee2u
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 8:38am
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I am a Navy Yard slug and in favor of a split. I do agree that the previously-proposed location of the new line presented some safety concerns for drivers and slugs. A solution would be to move the Navy Yard line to the overflow (or third) lot. There's plenty of parking, and the line could be established with safety in mind. Thanks.
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Posted By: divacheer1
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 10:49am
As of Monday, December 13th the slug-line was combined for all drop-offs (Navy Yard/L’Enfant and 14st). The issue is there are a lot of riders/drives that are still unaware of the change. We get to the lot between 6:40 and 7:15 and have been told that the lines are combined by the “coordinator” but once the “coordinator” leaves people who are unaware that the lines are combined, will split the line (coordinator- guy in black Avalon).
Due to the weather advisory today, drivers waited at least 40 mins or more for riders depending on what time they arrived at the lot (we arrived at 7:15 and didn’t get a rider until 8). Myself and other drivers, told the drivers who split the line, that the lines are now combined!!! Nonetheless, these drivers disregarded the information that was given to them and continued to wait in there own line and picked up riders only after a 5 to 15 min wait. I know everyone is trying to get to work on time but I find it extremely rude of these drives after myself and others waited for such a long time (don't get me wrong, I don't mind waiting, I have a problem with ill-mannered people).
I am a Navy Yard slugger in favor for the split. If the line was split maybe I could've got to work on time today [:)]. The commuter lot is big enough where the Navy Yard/L’Enfant or 14st line can relocate to a different part of the lot which is convenient and safe for both riders and drivers. I just think we need to find a solution asap. Thank goodness tomorrow is Friday. Be safe, stay warm and have a great day [:D]
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Posted By: bobbrannon
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 6:45pm
this morning was tough ... we really do need to sort this problem out soon.
Bob
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Posted By: TR025
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2010 at 1:35pm
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Let me pile on with my frustrations about re-combining the line as I sit in a line of cars 10-15 deep with riders trolling down the line to find someone to take them to wherever...the idea to split the line was outstanding but poorly executed. Let's try again, this time with some planning! Let everyone know it's going to happen, post signs for two-three weeks and pass out fliers with diagrams showing where the lines will be located. Find a location in the lot that will accomodate a line without putting riders at risk. Suggest keeping L'Enfant and Navy Yard together, and splitting out 14th St riders. Leave LF and Navy in the current location and re-locate the 14th St Line. If you build it, advertise it properly and thoughtfully, and execute it...it will work!!!!
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Posted By: GeorgeML
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2010 at 11:37am
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I believe the cars that plug up the line (regardless of where the line is) are Navy Yard cars. I remember a few months ago one driver (Black Pickup) would only accept riders who were going "into the yard." His insistance of only accepting "badged riders" was in my view inconsiderate. Some of the Navy yard cars who wait for riders also do not stop close to the right side of the road which prevents any other cars from passing. When you get three Navy yard drivers who either refuse to take riders to a nearby location or drop off along the way, it plugs up the system. If a majority would like to split the line, then I recommend that you split out only the Navy Yard cars so other cars and riders can go to work without being unnecessarily impacted. I do not see from the comments posted that a majority like the two lines. I think the main underlying issue is what to do with Navy Yard Cars without riders... ;-)
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Posted By: PDenny
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2011 at 1:35pm
Where do we stand on this whole issue? I still think the lines should be split. I know a couple of people I've ridden with suggested moving the WNY and L'Enfant people to a different place in the lot. For instance the line could be moved to the main road and positioned before the 18th street people. It would then be WNY/L'Enfant then 18th St then the bus stop. That is a safe place for those of us standing in line plus the majority of drivers typically are already merging to the middle lane with the potential of having the go around the buses. Anyone going the current pickup point can make they're right turn at the first right from Horner rd. Another suggestion was to put the line in that one section where it is minivan parking only (around the corner from 18th St line). Granted that place is not as safe as the main strip location, but can be done. Either way, I'm sure things will move smoother than how it's going now.
Since we don't have a board running the line we could consider putting this to a vote. I would be willing to set up an e-vite. With an e-vite each person is given one opportunity to vote yea or nay. In order to do so, I would create an account that people would send in their e-mail addresses to. These e-mails addresses could be their normal everyday e-mail or they could create one for this specific vote. Either way, the e-mails would not be distributed beyond the vote and this would give all participants one and only one opportunity to vote. Each of us that is sent the e-vite would be able to view the running tally of votes.
Let everyone know what you think. Splitting the line just seems more efficient for both riders and drivers.
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Posted By: ElGuapo
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2011 at 2:35pm
When the line was split things moved a lot more efficiently. Now that it's back to one line my morning commute takes longer. I think the idea of putting it to a vote, rather than allowing a few self-appointed "enforcers" dictate to the majority, is a great idea. Granted, the previous split arrangement has some safety and logistics challenges, so let's move one of the lines (14th or WNY/LP) to another location, such as upstream of the 18th Street line. My suggestion is to move the 14th Street line there, since it appears that the volume of riders and drivers going to WNY/LP is more and getting larger.
ElGuapo
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Posted By: cmurray0
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2011 at 7:20am
I'm in on voting to split and relocate the line. I can't believe people think one line is working well when we have cars idling in line halfway through the lot. Splitting the line doubles the process of filling those waiting cars.... think about it and learn to accept change. If the line gets moved to a different area it would be harder for a lone protester to divert the line back to 1 and ruin it for everyone.
You will have to pass a form through the slug line and somehow get driver's emails for the vote since most people are not on this board.
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Posted By: Salty
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 12:08pm
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Is anyone working on a plan? I would like to post some graphics showing all the propsed location but I dont know how.
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Posted By: PDenny
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2011 at 9:03pm
An Evite has been created to put this whole thing to a vote and finally to rest. Flyers will be placed at the line tomorrow afternoon to explain the how this will take place. See below for a copy of the flyer. Please make sure as many people know about this opportunity to weigh in on a decision of whether to keep the line as it is or split it. The only way to get a true read on what the majority wants is if everyone, including the drivers have the opportunity to vote. Thanks for the help.
HORNER ROAD DECISION
Since recombining the slug-lines several people have voiced their opinions. We all understand that we do not have a Board of Directors and to this point decisions whether good or not so good have been made by one or two people. The suggestion has been made to put the decision to split to a vote. Since it’s pretty much impossible to get everyone in the same room, an e-vote is next best thing. There has been an e-vite set up to be sent out to all riders and drivers. By submitting an e-mail address (real or one made up just for this vote) to hornerroaddecision@yahoo.com you will eligible to cast a vote. Once the voting has finished and the decision made, this e-mail account will be closed.
The benefit of an e-vite is that the entire process will be transparent. You will be able to see the current count by simply logging into e-vite. That being said you may have to set up an e-vite account (free). All of this will be in the e-vite e-mail you receive. The next step is for you to e-mail the address above to request an e-vite be sent to you. Please make sure your driver has received one of these. Thank you.
Voting will close February 4, 2011 at 11:59 PM
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Posted By: riverotter2
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 10:17am
IF you want people to vote, then please make sure you give them some choices. Per some prior comments, this whole mess seems to be all about the Navy Yard people. If they want their own line, let them have it. I think there would be a lot less opposition if they weren't trying to force the L'Enfant drivers and slugs to give up their options and join them.
So please make sure all options are available for the vote;
- Keep the line as is.
- Split the line in 2, 14th St and L'Enfant stay at regular location, Navy Yard moves to another location.
- Split the line in 2, L'Enfant and Navy yard stay at regular location, 14th St moves to another location (since it is the shorter line per comments above).
Now that I think about it, If the Navy Yard people want their own line, why don't they just move. WE DON'T NEED TO VOTE ON THAT.
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Posted By: Tiberius
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 10:16pm
I say KEEP the the line as it is. If the Navy Yard driver or some other non L'Enfant location sluggers think there is an issue, then let them move.
Don't get so bent out of shape. Is your job or you so important that you can't wait a few extra minutes? If those few extra waiting minutes are causing you a problem, then maybe you should get up earlier, Don't take away my option, just to save you a few minutes. Therefore, I vote to keep the L'Enfant line where it is.
Tiberius
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Posted By: GeorgeML
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 10:13pm
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The Recent e-vite organized by Denny Palmer is not a fair democratic vote. It merely invites you to a non-existant event. If you reply "Yes" to attend that means you are actually voting to split out L'Enfant with Navy Yard from the 14th line. If you decline the invitation to attend the event then you are voting NO to the split. The actual invitation itself does not explain that you are casting a vote with no other alternatives. I miscast my "vote" thinking I would be attending an actual event where there would be some choice. This is not a democratic vote. It gives the L'Enfant riders no voice as to whether they want to be grouped with the Navy Yard or Not. That is not democratic. Who determined that all L'Enfant riders must be grouped with Navy Yard? If there is to be a "vote" then set one up that provides actual choice and doesn't predetermine only two possible outcomes...
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Posted By: PDenny
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 9:54am
George if you are going to call someone out please have your facts straight first. From the time the line was merged back together on Dec 6th there have been 35 posts, some for and some against. As I stated the e-vite was created as a vehicle to put to rest whether or not to split the lines. That's all. No one else was coming up with a possible solution. Whoever created the split in early Dec originally had it as (line #1 (14th), line #2 L'E/WNY). I did not change that. All I recommended was to move one of the lines to a safer location; a sidewalk.
As for my misleading anyone, you need to reread the e-vite that clearly states This evite is being used to cast a vote to split the slug-line (14th/L'Enfant/Navy Yard). The proposed split will be for 14th Street riders/drivers (r/d) to use the section of the main road west of the 18th street location (same side of the street, other side of entrance to parking lot. The L'Enfant/Navy Yard will remain at the current location. Coming in from Telegraph road, it would then be parking lot entrance, 14th, parking lot entrance, 18th, Bus stops, parking lot entrance, L'Enfant/Navy Yard. A yes "I'm attending" is a vote for the split as proposed. A no "I'm not attending" is a vote to keep the line the way it is. I NEVER once claimed that a yes vote would take you to an actual event that you could make some other vote. If you had some other better way of trying to find closure with this then why didn't you step up? There were 43 days that passed from the time the lines were merged back together to the time the e-vite was created. One Jan 13th (38 days from the remerge) someone ask “if anyone was working on a plan”.
Remember one thing there is no perfect solution to this issue of success we have with slugging. Leave the line together as it is and some will complain. Separate the lines and some will complain. Heck I wasn’t sure how to group Independence riders and drivers. What seemed to make sense is to keep them with 14th St since a driver can pick up a 14th only rider or an actual Independence rider. Again there is not a one solution fits all with this issue. At least by having this e-vite vote, to date 42 people (39 in favor / 9 against) have been able to have some kind of say with 26 more left to weigh in. That sir is democracy by definition: social equality.
Now that I've had a chance to defend myself, what would you suggest to solve the problem since it appears we have one with this line? Its one thing to complain it's another thing to attempt to fix....
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Posted By: DrChen
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 11:32am
I'd say leave it the same. More options in case if one destination is moving along faster than another. Or if you're the slug and are going to somewhere further than where you get dropped off (metro)options are good if they can access metro. I.E. Navy Yard, you can take L'Enfant and then metro to Navy Yard. By having all 3 at the same line, you have more choices.
Maybe I missed it, but why did the idea of splitting it up even come up in the first place? Is it the long wait because of lots of cars and people don't walk to them? Why don't people start walking up to the cars?
Why sit on the sidewalk and wait for a car to pull up?
If the whole line starts walking or maybe a section at a time starts walking, maybe the whole car/people line will get moving quicker!
This also goes for those at the Potomac/Horner line at the Pentagon in the afternoon. I don't get it why people like to wait in line when there's a line of cars waiting to pick them up. They just need to have the inclination to start walking to the cars and get going quicker. But I guess some people like to be passive rather than active.
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Posted By: GeorgeML
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 8:56pm
PDenny
My point is if you are going to have a vote then capture the options that were presented in various posts to the Blog. To merely restate the issue as origionally imposed is not a proper vote giving people a choice of what they may want.
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Posted By: wilkinak
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 3:25pm
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I really wish you all would just leave the line alone. So I wait 10 minutes to get a free ride? small price to pay. Go find an HOA to run, get your power trip there and leave the slug line alone.
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Posted By: MoxieMom
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 11:02am
I have definitely been around WAY TOO LONG. Various forms of splitting these destinations were tried when the original lines were created at the time the "Horner" Road lot was expanded and have arisen from time to time since then. These three destinations always gravitate back together.
This is why: If there are no drivers for Navy Yard later in the morning, Navy Yard Slugs have, and often times use, the option of hopping in with a L'Enfant driver. A slug looking for L'Enfant later in the morning has the option of hopping in with a 14th Street Driver, if no L'Enfant drivers are coming through. A slug looking for a 14th street driver has the option of hopping in with a L'Enfant Driver if no 14th Street drivers are coming their way. Vice versa is true for the drivers in terms of who they snatch. It is all about having options for the slugs as well as the drivers. That is why these three destinations are, and always will be, inextricably connected.
The line moves okay during the early morning hours when slugs and cars are plentiful. It is the later (if you can believe the 7:00 a.m. is "later") hours the will forever link these three destinations. This is a force of nature people. Stop trying to engineer Mother Nature.
Lastly, if what GeorgeML posted above on 23 Jan 2011 at 22:13:03 is true; then shame on you - whoever initiated this. S-can the vote.
MoxieMom
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Posted By: cmp9969
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2011 at 10:41am
I have always wondered why they don't use the north side, behind the bus stops as a slug line location. My proposal to the split is to split the Navy Yard to that location. It would be SAFE, the Navy Yard would run faster and the 14th & L'Enfant riders/drivers would run faster and have their options. The map can be found at http://maps.google.com/maps/empw?url=http:%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fms%3Fie%3DUTF8%26hl%3Den%26msa%3D0%26msid%3D216776733095569245365.00049b25de377d5aa9392%26safe%3Don%26t%3Dh%26ll%3D38.658962,-77.283061%26spn%3D0.001102,0.001358%26output%3Dembed&hl=en&gl=us - Proposed Navy Yard Line Split
VA Slugger
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Posted By: MoxieMom
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2011 at 3:31pm
I just received a email notification of the "voting" results. The following is quoted from the opening paragraph of Denny Palmer's email:
quote:
"The voting period has ended and thanks goes out to all that participated. The final results are 87 in favor of a split, 23 opposed, and 17 that signed up to vote but never cast their vote."
Of the hundreds and hundreds who use this line daily, Only 87 voted to make the move. Given GeorgeML comment above about the confusion as to what a person was actually voting for, it is quite possible that many of the "yes" votes were accidental.
Yet Mr. Palmer sees this has license to order and implement the split. Good luck all. I am out of the morning slug pick-up business the day it is implemented.
Slug-Line.com webmaster, please send out a general notice to all registered Slug-Lines.com users when these two line eventually merge back together again, as they inevitably will. I may begin picking up again then.
MoxieMom
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Posted By: bacano
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 1:45pm
when does the split take effect?
Robert Willis
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Posted By: driver1
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2011 at 9:57am
I both am a slug at times and a driver the majority of times. I believe in options and leaving the lines together gives me as both a slug and driver the best available options. I can choose which place to go depending on what comes up first. If I'm driving I can choose a different location if there's no one at the first one I call out. By having all 3 at the same line, both slugs and drivers have more choices. For me, my 2 interchangeable locations are 14th and L'enfant. By splitting those two, you take away my options.
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Posted By: ejones
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2011 at 12:49pm
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As the saying goes, “You can’t make everyone happy all of the time.” As for the split, not everyone will be happy with it but if you were a slug in this morning’s line, you probably think we need to split the lines up again. With the combined slugs from Potomac Mills, the line was so long this morning when I got there around 6:15am. Thank goodness it only took 15-20 minutes to get a ride in. It could have been much faster with separate designated lines. There needs to be a change done when you’re standing in the slug line and can’t even hear the caller calling out the car destinations because you’re so far back in the slug line, and when you get closer to the front of the line you hear the caller yelling out designations so lowed that they will probably get a sore throat from doing so. We really need to go back to the split. Why wait to go through so many cars to get to the one car for your destination when there could be a car just there for you and no one will need to loose their voice in the process. Please post any information you have regarding the 14th Street/L’Enfant/Navy Yard line split, if you have any current information on it, on this website. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! Happy Valentine's Day!
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Posted By: PDenny
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2011 at 3:48pm
All,
Things were delayed due to the Town Hall Meeting that took place last week. Today I sent an e-mail to those addresses that participated. I've also been in discussion with David LeBlanc from slug-lines.com and he will post an announcement on this site. I will also have flyers at the current pickup point by Wed morning. I've proposed to start the split on Feb 22nd which give everyone (drivers and riders) a week to get the news out so there is minimal confusion.
I realize as one person has stated that 95 people is only a percentage of the apparent hundreds that use this line, but there were three weeks that all of us had the opportunity to read the flyer that was available at the front of the line or hear from other sluggers about the vote. We all had the opportunity to vote during that time. This is not a case of "implementing a license to order a split", I was merely a facilitator of a process that many people were asking for in order to have closure to the split issue that occured at the end of last year. This is something that needs to be tried. The line at 7 AM this morning was 8 people past the manhole cover. That is ridiculously long.
Yes, there are no guarantees that this will help. And yes, there is absolutely no one size fits all with these issues. But both drivers and riders have had their fair share of issues over the past month with long lines and wait times. All everyone wants to do is get to work as efficiently as possible.
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Posted By: Rose14507
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 9:33am
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I must say that at Horner Rd, yesterday and today, the lines to 14th/Navy Yard/L'Enfant were ridiculously long. I vote for splitting this line ASAP.
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Posted By: LisaD
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 12:02pm
I also fully support splitting the lines. This will most definitely be faster. Maneuvers to wait for cars, or call two at a time are already being done and DO NOT provide for adequate relief to the slow movement of the line. This morning alone I waited over half an hour in the very cold and windy line, after the majority of the drivers called for Navy Yard, and we had to wait while people walked from the very back of an extremely long line. If the lines were split, there would be no problem at all. It is only going to get worse as the warmed weather approaches and more people slug over drive.
While I understand some want 'options' as they wait in the line, it is not reason enough to create such an immense wait for everyone else. Choose where you are going, pick a line, and get in it. You'll be rewarded with a faster pick up.
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Posted By: tlnp
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 4:12pm
I too support splitting the line. When I arrived at the line this morning, 6:30am, it went all the way back to the pentagon lot/line. The amount of time it takes to stage riders to cars is incredible! People at the end of the line can not hear the call outs, people start getting aggrevated because they think others are cutting line and quite a few of our slugging companions are just getting down right nasty and mean!
I know that we all dislike the 123 Lot but it may be our only answer to help us with this commuting dilemma. That lot has just over 700 spaces, think about it. We already wait 15 - 20 minutes for a ride in our current situation why not drive another 5 - 10 minutes and get your ride? Or is that just too easy???
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Posted By: penguingirl
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 4:28pm
I think it is interesting to see that more people are in support of the split on days when the line is long and against it on days when the line is shorter. Now that the PM lot has been reduced and the lines will be increased every day, I think more people who are for the shorter lines will speak up.
I dont think there is any doubt that the split will reduce the wait, it is just the option to change destination at the last minute that seems to make people against the split. I agree with the person who noted that it is not right for the rest of us to have to stand in the cold for up to 20 minutes so some people can be indecisive.
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Posted By: LJD
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 7:26am
Splitting the lines might be OK, but the arrangement of the existing line also needs to change. This is the only line i've used (and I've used many) where the riders do not line up alongside the cars. I drove in this morning for L'Enfant and called out from way back in the car line - nobody could hear me. I had to wait a few minutes for other cars to clear before picking my riders up. Obviously, they also had to wait.
REARRANGE THE LINE SO RIDERS AND DRIVERS ARE PARALLEL. Most other lines have passengers standing adjacent to parked cars, so it should work here, too.
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Posted By: Rindle
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 9:51am
I agree with LJD. There are too many people who are strongly opposed to a split, so let's just improve the line by moving it closer to the cars. Here's a map to clarify.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&ll=38.658905,-77.282539&spn=0.000732,0.001114&t=h&z=20&msid=207654787283361860654.00049c7af8c72b256b1aa
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Posted By: LJD
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2011 at 7:22am
Better, Rindle, but I was thinking that the head of the car line and head of the slug line are in the same place, and they line up together. This is how most lines work. There's sometimes a little jumping the gun as people in back try to get into a car in back, while people up front are waiting, but the line generally keeps that in check.
What you end up with is a line of cars right next to a line of people, and the people can call destinations forward much more easily. No rider has to "walk the line of cars" calling out to each one as they come up, because if there's a line of people waiting, the cars will simply pull up next to a rider, who can then call forward.
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Posted By: Rindle
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2011 at 8:16am
True, a lot of the other lines work that way, though I'm not sure those lines are as long as ours. During those few miserable days we tried a split in December, line-jumping was already seen and complained about. It was one of the reasons we rejected the split.
If slugs and cars line up in opposite directions, line-jumping is eliminated and we still have the benefit of the lines being close together. I picture the cars moving forward along the line looking for riders, not riders walking back and forth looking for a car.
The head of the slug line would gradually move farther into the lot as the parking spaces are filled, so we aren't in the way. Before 6:00 the parking spaces are still filling and there's no line of drivers yet anyway.
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