Tacketts (New Lot) etiquette in AM
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Topic: Tacketts (New Lot) etiquette in AM
Posted By: Eric
Subject: Tacketts (New Lot) etiquette in AM
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2002 at 1:25pm
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There seems to be two trends which need to be nipped in the bud. This AM, at about five til 8, I noted an example of each as I walked the line of cars with my Rosslyn sign. First, a driver was blatantly trying to cut the line by parking perpendicular to the rest of the line (at the entrance to the northern half of the lot). Although this person had another rider and was heading to Rosslyn, I ignored them. Do these people just not realize that there's like 20+ other cars patiently waiting in line, several of which are likely going to Rosslyn and were there first?? The second thing I noticed was someone near the back of the line hanging out of their car, calling out to me, trying to get me to short-circuit the line. (At least that's how I interpreted it, but if you're reading this and that wasn't your intent, I apologize.) As it turned out, there was, in fact, a Rosslyn-bound car ahead of that person. Anyway, I just thought I'd get up on the soapbox a bit. Hopefully any drivers who are new to the Tacketts lot will not follow some of the examples they see. - Eric. |
Replies:
Posted By: Patricia
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2002 at 2:26pm
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I slug from the Tacketts new lot in the AM and have also noticed recent confusion in the line of drivers waiting for slug to arrive. I believe there is an unannoucend effort underway to establish 2 lines, one for the Pentagon and another for Crystal City & Rosslyn. I'm not sure how a second line is established, but I think it will be beneficial to drivers and slugs alike when I does finally happen. Patricia Tackett's/Rosslyn lines |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2002 at 9:56pm
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Well, it does appear that there are two completely different situations at the New Lot, depending on the time of morning. I've been told that around 7 AM there are lines of slugs waiting for cars. In that case, it makes sense to segregate Pentagon and Rosslyn/Crystal City. However, after about 7:30 or so, there's often a whole bunch of cars waiting for slugs to show up. Since most Rosslyn/Crystal City drivers will take Pentagon folks if nobody for their destination shows up, it really doesn't make sense for the *cars* to segregate -- otherwise these people are stuck in a separate line waiting when they could've had two Pentagons and been on their way. The current process of having the Rosslyn/Crystal City slugs "walk the line" essentially works just as well, but allows the drivers the option of taking a Pentagon slug or slugs if that's faster for them. |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 07 May 2002 at 10:38am
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Back on the soapbox again! The line cutters are getting worse. There is now a consistent group of drivers that insist on forming their own line and stealing slugs from the regular line (that's been working fine for YEARS). Some drivers have told me that they will stop taking Rosslyn slugs if this keeps up!!! Basically, there's a lot of drivers who are doing the right thing and are getting tired of folks stealing the slugs they've been patiently waiting in line for. Look at it logically... As a slug, if you get into one of those cars, you could end up sitting there for quite some time, because the driver has locked themselves into only taking Rosslyn (or Crystal City) riders. When there's one line of cars only, then when a car reaches the front of the line, they have the option of taking a Pentagon rider and getting on their way. And as a driver, a second line is foolish for the very same reason. Sure you could luck out some days, but does that really make up for the days when no Rosslyn riders show up for a while and you could've been on your way with two Pentagons?? Bottom line: The only thing that keeps slugging civilized is something you learned in kindergarden -- don't cut in line. So, I urge slugs, do NOT get into cars that are in this alternate line. In the long run you're only hurting yourself because there's already fewer drivers willing to pickup Rosslyn riders. - Eric. |
Posted By: Patricia
Date Posted: 08 May 2002 at 3:22pm
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I both slug and pick up slugs from the Tackett's Mill New Lot depending on the day of the week. I find that the 2 separate lines for slugs/drivers (1 for Crys Cty/Rosslyn and 1 for Pentagon) works more smoothly than the 'old' one line. I guess I'm not experiencing the frustration that Eric seems to be experiencing. I've never waited more than a few minutes as a driver or a slug. Is there a way to determine, possibly by survey of the Tackett's Mill slugging community, peoples opinions on this issue, i.e, 2 lines vs. 1 line? Patricia Tackett's/Rosslyn lines |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 08 May 2002 at 3:50pm
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I guess the question is, when do you get there? At certain times, the penalty is probably minimal. But... two lines can NEVER work BETTER than one line. At best it can only be equal. Follow the logic. If everyone all agrees to use one line OR if they all agree to use two lines, the first Rosslyn driver is still the first Rosslyn driver in either case. As soon as that driver gets two Rosslyn riders, she/he can leave (in the single line case, those slugs will be 'walking the line'). However, in the single line case, if you don't get a second Rosslyn slug by the time you reach the front, you have the option of taking the next Pentagon slug OR you can wait a bit to see if another Rosslyn comes. BUT, if you are in the two line situation, then you're stuck waiting for the next Rosslyn slug, period. Worse, though, in the current case there is no agreement to all use one line or all use two lines. This leads to the slug having to make a choice of which line to use, which will inevitably lead to treating someone in the other line unfairly, as the slug has no idea who's been waiting the longest. This last point is the source of the widespread complaints. Some slugs are uncomfortable having to make that choice and many drivers are getting irate at what they see (rightly, I think) as line cutting. - Eric. Edited by - Eric on 08 May 2002 15:52:39 |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 09 May 2002 at 10:33am
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You know, I believe I was too diplomatic in my preceding post. To be blunt, the logic applies ONLY when EVERYONE is trying to do the right thing. Unfortunately, if there are many slugs who don't believe there's anything wrong with line cutting and then catch rides with the line-cutters, then the folks who are doing the wrong thing benefit and the ones doing right suffer. As for myself, even though it will cost me time, I will not do the dishonest thing and either attempt to steal slugs from the line that's been there for years or get in those cars that are trying to break the line. I urge others to do the same. If we stick to our principles, there is hope that these rude people will get the message. - Eric. |
Posted By: Patricia
Date Posted: 09 May 2002 at 10:55am
quote: Maybe you should try another commuter lot if you're so disappointed with the sluglines at Tackett's. Potomac Mills has 3 diffent lines and they seem to work well. :) Have a happy day. Patricia Tackett's/Rosslyn lines |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 10 May 2002 at 4:32pm
quote: Ummm... I've been using the Tackett's line for years. Why should I move?? There's never been any problem before these last few months. These folks that are messing with the way the line works are the newcomers. If they want separate lines, maybe THEY should go to Potomac. - Eric. |
Posted By: croz61
Date Posted: 29 May 2002 at 12:31pm
I've been picking up slugs at Tacketts for nearly a year now. My primary destination is Rosslyn, however, on occasion when the slug lines look bleak, I will pick up a slug for Crystal City or the Pentagon. I don't mean to be argumentative or to cause an uproar over this obviously emotional issue for Eric and Patricia, but I for one agree with the single line concept. The line moves very steady and I have had no problems picking up slugs. My only grievance is when, after I have been in line for a few minutes, a new driver pulls in and drives straight over to the side lot in order to cut the line and grab a slug.  It is very frustrating to myself and my passenger  when we lose a slug because someone cut ahead of us. The single line principle works in Rosslyn.  The new pick-up point is also a single line, but with various destinations and two pick-up points. I see no problem with the way this operates - except for the occasional driver who feels they are all too important to wait in line and tries to create a second lane for picking up slugs. (You just know, one day, somebody's not going to take it anymore and KAPOW!!! ...Right to the Moon!)The single line works. I agree with Eric on this Patricia. I'm not saying your idea will not work, only that right now, the two line concept in its current configuration, creates more animosity and confusion than ease. However, Eric....if we could get someone from the Department of Slugs  to come out and put up designated signs and stops (like Rosslyn's), the two line idea might work better, but until then, the old tried and true method is most effective. We all deal with enough frustrations in our life without having to start our day off with childish antics of people cutting in line.  I've said my peace. Please pass along this information to other drivers (scrapers) and slugs each morning to quickly alleviate this confusion. I hope you all have a pleasant day and a great summer.  Oh, by the way, to the slug that opened his briefcase and spilled his juice all over my rear seat, and didn't bother to clean it up - many thanks...I hope one day I can return the favor.  Edited by - croz61 on 29 May 2002 12:43:22 |
Posted By: Patricia
Date Posted: 29 May 2002 at 1:08pm
I must say, the dialog shared on this message board can be amusing at times. It also seems to be and effective method of sharing information. I agree with croz61 in regards to signage at the Tackett's lot. It would definitely improve the efficiency of '2 lines'. As for me...I'm moving on to 'reek havoc' at the 610 commuter lot. Does anyone know if they have separate lines for the various destinations?? I'll miss all the Tackett's slugs and drivers. Especially you, Eric.  Patricia Tackett's/Rosslyn lines |
Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 29 May 2002 at 2:28pm
| Patricia: yep! There are two lines at 610, one for "DC" and one for "Virginia" which is primarily Pentagon, Crystal City, and Rosslyn, along with Pentagon North Parking, Navy Annex, and, inexplicably, Navy Yard. I'm not sure about the destinations of the "DC" line as I have only had occassion to use it a couple of times (to go to L'Enfant Plaza). |
Posted By: Sheepish
Date Posted: 29 May 2002 at 2:42pm
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I pick up at Tackett's most mornings and have been watching (while waiting my turn for Pentagon riders) the results of this "2-line system" for some time now. Aside from the issue of "cutting in line," what concerns me is the traffic congestion and the near fender-bender "close calls" I have witnessed. While those "scrapers" sit there and wait in their newly formed line, there is the constant ingress and egress of cars to that side parking area. Oh- and then let's consider the slugs that do walk down the "traditional" line having to cross this mess. Here again... I have witnessed a few "close calls." There simply isn't enough room for this "2-line system" to continue safely. It was much smoother months ago before this second line started.... |
Posted By: croz61
Date Posted: 30 May 2002 at 12:25pm
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Sorry to hear you are leaving Patricia, but good luck at the "610" location. I agree wholeheartedly with Sheepish on the amount of close calls we see each morning. Something should be done to alleviate the confusion and get the word out to everyone participating...the attempt to create two separate lines perpendicular to each other is hazardous. I, for one, will continue to use the single lane approach and beg other drivers to do the same. I would ask all slugs to avoid the secondary line as well.  We should be able to pass the word on to enough people to make the difference. |
Posted By: croz61
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2002 at 8:42am
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Is it possible for someone from VDOT to come out a put up signs designating where slugs should be waiting for rides and for which areas? (Much like Rosslyn's new signs) If VDOT personnel were standing at the back center of the lot and facing the intersection on Minneville, use the following guideline to assist in placing the signs: Looking at the street lamps over the center lane, place the Rosslyn/Crystal City sign at Lamp Post 2 and place the Pentagon sign, one block up, approximately at Lamp Post 4. I know signs are expensive, but by doing this, it will alleviate the problems associated with multiple lines forming for the same pick-up/drop-off points, it will alleviate the congestion at the center intersection in the parking lot, and it should allow for easier access to Pentagon personnel, since cars will be able to line up 4 or 5 car lengths before the Rosslyn line (as opposed to the 2 or 3 car lengths now). |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2002 at 1:40pm
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The word I've repeatedly gotten is that VDOT will, under no circumstances, get involved in doing anything that smacks of sanctioning slugging. However... I've been told that VDOT was going to have a look at the situation as a safety issue, simply because of the hazard caused by the line-cutters. The implication that I got (though perhaps just my interpretation) is that if anything got done, it would be to try and enforce a SINGLE line (and so avoid the increased hazard due to increased traffic coming from the side lot due to the line-cutters). Note that if VDOT were to provide signage that firmly established the second line, this would lead to the situation I've outlined before -- on average the time to get to Rosslyn or Crystal City will increase over that of the single line. - Eric. |
Posted By: Patricia
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2002 at 2:17pm
 single line... double line... Can't we all just get along??? Patricia Stafford/610 |
Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2002 at 3:20pm
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I will ask VDOT (again) for assistance but each request up to this point has been "we don't get involved with slugging." It is unfortunate that VDOT takes this approach because without the slugging commuters, the VDOT parking lots would be underutilized. They openly support traditional carpooling but take a hands-off approach to "instant carpooling" using potential liability issues as an excuse. I phase their answer as an excuse because it implies that it's the liability aspect of slugging that prevents them from supporting it. If that is the case, it suggests that VDOT must be assuming liability for traditional carpoolers because they openly support it. I question this because I have never heard of a case, nor expect to hear, of VDOT assuming liability for an injured carpooling passenger against a carpooling driver. So, if in truth they do not take financial responsibility for traditional carpoolers then what is preventing them from supporting slugging? The answer - nothing. That's a long way of saying - I will ask VDOT but I do not expect any support. |
Posted By: thornc
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2002 at 3:31pm
Wanting to drop at Rosslyn in the morning I prefer to wait for 2 Rosslyn slugs rather then go to the Pentagon. For that reason I moved to the second line thinking(da)that I was getting out of the way of the Pentagon folks who were forced to either wait behind me or risk an accident by going around me. I thought(da again) that by having a second line Crystal City and Rosslyn slugs no longer needed to cruise the line looking for a ride. I do agree that it's starting to get dicey with cars pulling out of the second line into on-coming cars trying to pull into the parking lot. This could be solved if folks wanting to turn left would go to the end and turn where there is a natural break in the line. Commuting is tuff enough without accusing people of trying to cut and such. I'm not trying to cut in on anyone and those of you who block the second line, well that's just childish. Afterall folks, aren't we all just trying our best to get to work?  |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2002 at 11:21pm
THORNC wrote:quote: You may not think you're trying to cut in on anyone, but, in fact, you are. The Tacketts line has always been a single line and when you pick up Rosslyn riders along the side, chances are VERY good that you've just stolen a slug from someone who has been waiting in the correct line. In days gone by (i.e., until a few months ago), this was universally considered one of the worst breaches of slugging etiquette. As proof that the folks on the side are cutting, I offer up that when I continue down the correct line, I generally find a Rosslyn car within the next 5 or so. Anyone coming in from the side and taking slugs is therefore cutting in line. Walking the line is the way that was worked out as being the quickest. I'm not going to recap the logic of why this is so, because that's already been discussed earlier in this thread. I have no idea why in just the last few months some folks have decided that the social consensus that's worked just fine for years needs to be broken. At some point, someone decided that their own time was more valuable than everyone else's and so just cut the line. Once a few started doing that, newcomers might see folks sitting there and innocently start using that spot, not knowing that there is a well established protocol that's being violated. Oh, and if you think it's dicey for cars, try being on foot!! As for folks blocking those coming from the side... Wrong, yes, but consider this: most drivers are actually quite polite for the most part. Therefore, for every frustrated driver who's tired of the line-cutting and does this, there are probably 10 more drivers who're equally steamed but aren't publically demonstrating it. BTW, I know that since the 110 ramp from the Pentagon has been closed, dropping one there and then going to Rosslyn has been harder, but for the last few months you've been able to continue straight past the Pentagon (making the dropoff in those pull off areas) and onto Washington Blvd. Not as good as the 110 ramp was, but only a minute or two longer than when you get off HOV at the Wash. Blvd. exit directly. Especially since you don't have to fight across two lanes of stopped traffic. So perhaps, thornc, you and the Rosslyn drivers like you might consider rejoining the REAL line -- there's no reason not to. - Eric. |
Posted By: croz61
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2002 at 12:46pm
Is there any word from VDOT for putting up two signs for the new Tacketts Mill lot? Using the single line concept, and placing the signs curbside (but a few light poles apart) would negate the hazardous problems we have each morning. These hazardous conditions are getting far more frequent and are caused by intersecting traffic and pedestrians (drivers and slugs) attempting to create and utilize a 2nd line. Within a matter of 5 minutes this AM, I watched two near collisions and one slug get nearly flattened  . Something has to be done soon. |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2002 at 2:26pm
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Not only is it a hazard from that point of view, but this AM was very disturbing to me for another reason. As I walked past the line-cutters, the lead car honked at me from about 3 feet away. (Which, needless to say, startled me.) The driver asked what I was doing and when I told him I was going to use the correct line, he got irate. At first I was going to patiently explain the situation, but he was clearly hot under the collar. When he started to step out of his car , I walked away. (And found a Rosslyn ride just two cars farther down the line, thus proving, once again, that the "second line" is, in fact, based upon stealing riders.) So, not only was this guy not satisfied with breaching the rule about stealing riders, but he also thinks he can tell a slug which car he/she can or cannot get into! And then to get to the point of getting out of his car!? I think I'm going to start carrying a pad & pen in my hands. If I ever have a run-in like that, I can at least alert others. I'd guess that, regardless of most people's feelings about how the New Lot should run, NOBODY wants to ride with a hot-head like that. - Eric. |
Posted By: newbie
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2002 at 2:56pm
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I'm confused about this whole "two line" issue at Tackett's Mill. I am a newbie to slugging (as a driver). On my first day in the lot, I was waiting on a very long line. I noticed to my left that there was a line formed on the other side of the lot (perpendicular to the line that I was on). Being new to the slug lot, I was concerned that I may not be on the correct line - knowing that some slug lots have more than one line. So I got out of my car and ran over to the driver in the car behind me to ask if I was on the correct line. That driver asked where I was headed, and when I told her that it was Rosslyn, she said (and I quote) "oh, you need to go over to that line" and she pointed to the other shorter line that had formed. So my question is....if you don't want to form two lines (which seems to work), why are the drivers telling the newbies about the second line?? Also, the slugs ARE using the second line. It is clearly not a problem for them. Being new to slugging, I want to follow the rules and not appear as a "line cutter" to the veterans of slugging. But it seems that some of the veterans are telling the newbies, indirectly, to cut the line. Maybe we all just need to be on the same page, and not give misleading information to those of us who are new to this slugging concept. |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2002 at 4:04pm
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Newbie, I have no idea why you were told such misinformation. A quick check of both the existing slugging websites shows that the established convention is to run ONE line and the non-Pentagon slugs walk the line with signs. It has been that way for YEARS. It works better for drivers that way, as the Rosslyn/Crystal City driver gets the option of doing the Pentagon if nobody shows up for their destination (or doing one Pentagon and one to their destination). Unless you'd rather wait a possibly long time for that second rider. For slugs it also works better, since you don't risk getting stuck in a car that's sitting there waiting on a second slug. Anyway, all the logic of why one line is better has been covered earlier in this topic. Additionally, as someone new to the slugging phenomenon, I hope you've read the various discussions of slugging etiquette. One of the biggest rules is "Thou shalt not steal slugs". Which is what the second line has been doing since day one (though, I'm sure not everyone in that line has thought about it). On a typical morning I'll walk right past the second line and within a few cars find someone headed to my destination. Any slugs to that destination that were taken by the second line were, quite obviously, stolen from someone in the REAL line, in direct violation of slugging etiquette. Another argument against that line is that it totally changes the traffic pattern at that spot and significantly increases the danger to pedestrians (as well as motorists). A number of incidents of this type have been noted in this topic. As further proof of the line-cutting/slug-stealing, I submit what I saw this morning. The lead car in the second line was holding up a *PENTAGON* sign. If that isn't an attempt to steal slugs, I don't know what is. It's also quite silly, since it is very unlikely a Pentagon slug would've ever reached him. Unfortunately, this is a case where the people who are doing the right thing suffer. For some reason, I see many slugs who just walk right up to the second line and completely ignore the folks who are in the proper line. I'm just glad that I still find drivers that are still willing to stick it out and do what's right. And to all that read this, let me just urge that you not patronize the line-cutting 'line' and further, you should point this out to others. Slugging works well when everyone adheres to the long-standing rules of etiquette. When these rules are broken, slugging stops working as well. - Eric. |
Posted By: BelvoirSlug
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2002 at 11:57am
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OK..now I'm confused. I'm a new slugger. I've noticed two lines. One going straight down the entrance/exit to the lot and other one off to the side. Normally I go to the one off to the side as I was under the impression that this was the Rosslyn/Crystal City line and the other line was for Pentagon. I don't want to offend anyone by standing in the wrong line if there isn't to be two lines. Can anyone clear this up for me? |
Posted By: tameraj
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2002 at 2:05pm
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There is only one line for everyone at Tacketts. That "other" line you see is for cars that are trying to form their own line and thus get ahead of the other cars. While it's a nice concept - two lines - works great at Potomac Mills (my favorite lot) - there isn't enough space for it at Tackett's AND the public is not informed (thus not fair to those who wait patiently in the main line). Best etiquette - check the cars in the main line first before stopping at the "other" line. If people get rude, ignore them. I've found that those are the drivers you want to avoid anyway. And, yes, I know how rude they can be but I also realize it's frustration over the system, not knowing that they really are in the wrong. I think one of the biggest problems with slugging is that people (drivers and riders) don't realize that slugging is based on rules and etiquette. They want to form their own "rules" without getting the say so from the slugging community AND VDOT. While many might feel it would be nice to have two lines at Tackett's, no one has gotten the approval from VDOT for two lines, thus it's still one line. Tackett's is a nice location to slug out of (my favorite "late" lot), let's keep it that way. |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2002 at 12:46pm
quote: You are absolutely correct that there is supposed to only be ONE line at Tackett's and that the second line amounts to 'body snatching'. I've had mixed feelings about doing what you suggest (namely, going to the cheaters after reaching the end of the proper line). I worry that accepting rides from them at all will be a tacit approval of their activity. As a practical matter, though, I, like you, have to balance the need to get to work in a timely fashion with the need to take a stand against a severe breach of slugging etiquette. You've missed the mark on one thing, though. VDOT cannot and will not ever have anything to do with slugging. They believe it to be a liability issue if they endorse slugging in any way. Which is frustrating the heck out of the county people, who would like to post signage to eliminate the second line (due to the greatly increased hazard it presents - there was another near accident this AM from someone pulling out of the cheater's line). VDOT has apparently examined the situation, but these are the same folks who have to wait for a body count before they put an intersection near the top of their list. - Eric. |
Posted By: masinick
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2002 at 3:21pm
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I've been slugging out of the Tacketts lot for the last few months going to Crystal City. For the first few days I "Walked The Line" and found it to be a terrible experience as nearly EVERYBODY was going to the Pentagon and very few of the had signs, so I had to have them roll down the window, etc. Each day since then I have simply walked to the second line formed for Rosslyn and Crystal City, and hopped right into a car. If all of the drivers had Crystal City / Pentagon signs, it would be one thing, but over half don't. Having a second line is the best way to go for all parties concerned... It's just the traffic logistics that are the problem. But this is not going to change by screaming on this board. The two line concept is now the standard at Tacketts Mill and will be until there are official looking signs stating otherwise. Anybody thinking otherwise is kidding themselves (and waiting in the wrong line). Mike |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2002 at 3:37pm
quote: It is generally the SLUG that carries the sign. Works much better that way. quote: Actually, the second line is WORSE for all parties concerned, or at best a wash, as is easily proven (look back in this thread for the logic). At the beginning, the only people that really got a benefit out of it were those that started the line by stealing riders from others. For the slug, I can see where you might feel like you're saving a few steps, but it's not like the line is ever that long. It boggles the mind that so many people just don't get that the second line could only be established by stealing riders from people who were doing it the proper way (as stated on this website!). BTW, the first time you're stuck sitting in a car needing a third rider and you see all those Pentagon people come and go, you'll experience living proof that the second line can never be better. Given that it is also more confusing, poses an additional traffic hazard and is fundamentally unfair to any driver that would be willing to be flexible in destination, the second line should have been a non-starter. How and why it's become so popular, I can't fathom. - Eric. |