Hybrid HOV Exemption Extension?
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Forum Name: Hybrids
Forum Description: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV.
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Topic: Hybrid HOV Exemption Extension?
Posted By: sluDgE
Subject: Hybrid HOV Exemption Extension?
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2009 at 1:35pm
Someone asked in another thread of messages when the current hybrid exemption to use the HOV lanes expires.
The latest appears to be that both houses of the 2009 session of the Virginia Legislature have passed a bill to extend the current hybird exemption to use HOV lanes SOV until mid-2010. (See website http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?091+sum+HB2476 ). The website shows the House voted 93 "for" and 5 "opposed" on Feb 2nd, and the Senate vote was 36 "for" and 2 "against" on Feb 26th.
The next step in the process is the bill goes to the Governor where he either approves, vetos, or offers amendments.
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Replies:
Posted By: LOL
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2009 at 3:20pm
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Predictable. Easier to let the toll lanes take care of the exemption.
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Posted By: Jeffrey Bell
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 10:38am
The 2011 session is getting ready to vote on house bill #1432 and house bill #1754 to extend the exemption for SOV hybrids with clean special fuel license plates until July 2012. Please email the delegates listed below to request that they vote against this extension. We need to get these single-occupant vehicles OUT of the HOV lanes!
Delegate Thomas "Tag" Greason (Loudon County) (introduced HB 1432): deltgreason@house.virginia.gov
Delegate Kenneth Plum (Reston) (introduced HB 1754): delkplum@house.virginia.gov
Delegate Eileen Filler-Corn (Springfield):delefiller-corn@house.virginia.gov
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Posted By: Zum
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 8:39am
Jeff Frederick is the delegate in Woodbridge.
ZumZum
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Posted By: smithma
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 8:43am
Here's the response I got from Dave Albo:
"Thank you for writing in opposition to an extension of the HOV Clean Fuel Plate Exemption. Del. Thomas Greason has introduced HB 1432, which is officially summarized:
HOV lanes; use by vehicle with clean special fuel license plates. Extends until July 1, 2012, the sunset on use of HOV lanes by clean special fuel vehicles, regardless of the number of occupants.
This bill is currently awaiting a hearing in the Committee on Transportation. Because I do not serve on that committee, I will not be able to affect the bill’s progress unless it reaches the floor of the House of Delegates. However, if it does so, you may be sure that I will take your views into consideration. If you would like to track the progress of HB 1432, or any other bill, you may do so through my website, www.davealbo.com. Just click “Track Legislation” and type in the bill number.
Again, I appreciate you taking the time to write. I always enjoy hearing from my constituents, so if you have any more comments, questions, or concerns, I encourage you to contact me again."
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 11:22am
Over the years I've emailed Dave Albo about opposing the exemption and have gotten the same non-committal response. Corey Stewart has been an advocate for the slug system. Albo; not so much.
The VA legislature will not drop the hybrid exemption until the HOT lanes are built on 395. Because SOVs will buy their way onto the HOT lanes, the hybrid exemption will be difficult to justify if SOVs are paying and hybrid drivers are not. The HOT lanes will not be moving at 65 MPH (Flour/Transurban has already admitted they will not be able to maintain the speed limit on HOV with the influx of SOV drivers). Hybrid drivers will, however, have the same option as other drivers - have 3 people in their car and they will not be charged the toll.
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Posted By: smithma
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 6:06pm
Found the voting history for last years bill that extended it to 2011.
ALBO voted for the extension!
HB 214 HOV lanes; extends date for use by vehicle with clean special fuel license plates.
floor: 01/26/10 House: VOTE: --- PASSAGE (78-Y 17-N)
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YEAS--Abbitt, Albo, Alexander, Armstrong, Athey, Bell, Richard P., Bell, Robert B., Brink, Bulova, Byron, Carrico, Cleaveland, Cline, Comstock, Cosgrove, Cox, J.A., Cox, M.K., Crockett-Stark, Dance, Ebbin, Edmunds, Englin, Greason, Griffith, Herring, Hope, Howell, A.T., Hugo, Iaquinto, Ingram, James, Janis, Johnson, Jones, Keam, Kilgore, Knight, Landes, LeMunyon, Lewis, Lohr, Loupassi, Marshall, D.W., Marshall, R.G., Massie, May, McClellan, Merricks, Miller, J.H., Miller, P.J., Morefield, Morgan, Nutter, O'Bannon, Oder, Orrock, Peace, Phillips, Plum, Pogge, Pollard, Putney, Rust, Scott, E.T., Scott, J.M., Sherwood, Shuler, Sickles, Stolle, Surovell, Tata, Toscano, Tyler, Ward, Ware, O., Ware, R.L., Watts, Wright--78.
NAYS--BaCote, Barlow, Carr, Cole, Garrett, Gear, Gilbert, Joannou, Lingamfelter, McQuinn, Morrissey, Nixon, Poindexter, Purkey, Spruill, Villanueva, Mr. Speaker--17.
ABSTENTIONS--0.
NOT VOTING--Abbott, Anderson, Kory, Torian--4.
Delegate Howell, W.J. recorded as nay. Intended to vote yea.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2011 at 7:51am
I've discussed this many times with both my delegate and my state senator. Both have indicated that there is as much chance for the exemption NOT to pass as there is for a sensible and progressive measure to end the HOV exemption and turn the lanes back into what they first were - express lanes for buses only. Even when I point out that getting rid of HOV and only exempting hybrids would lead to a boost in the economy similar to the taxpayer subsidized "cash for clunkers", cleans up the environment by 30%, improves fuel consumption and lessons the demand for foreign oil, and provides a sustainable source of revenue for transportation with the bus fees.
Anyone remember the transportation funding issues of the early 1970s? Seems like turning the express lanes into HOV became Virginia's equivalent to California's Proposition 13 - really good in the short term but a complete mess a few decades later.
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Posted By: HOVME
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2011 at 10:09am
HB 1432 overwhelmingly passed the House by 90 to 8 January 31, 2011. Its companion Senate bill is in Committee with a positive impact statement. Last year the Senate unanimously passed the hybrid exemption by 40 to 0. Odds seem quite high the exemption will be extended through June 30, 2012.
HOVME
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2011 at 11:17am
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The sad part is this doesn't help the system it hurts the system. We need to remove the exemption.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2011 at 4:51pm
Actually, it is a FAR bigger help to the "system" than slugging - unless you narrowly define the system as slugging.
If slugging were eliminated while allowing hybrids to use the express lanes during peak commuting hours:
- slugs would probably have to use buses
- there would be less congestion (HOV-33 is better than HOV-3)
- the air would be cleaner
- fuel consumption would lower
- gas prices would be lower
- the economy would improve (just like cash for clunkers, but with no taxpayer subsidy)
THAT'S why the grandfathered expemption always passes with a HUGE majority - it just makes sense!
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Posted By: smithma
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2011 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by NoSUV
HUH?
- there would be less congestion (HOV-33 is better than HOV-3)
- the air would be cleaner
- fuel consumption would lower
Then getting rid of SOV Hybrids would be even better!
- gas prices would be lower
- the economy would improve (just like cash for clunkers, but with no taxpayer subsidy)
These make no sense whatsoever!
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2011 at 2:03pm
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How does having single riding Hybrids help reduce traffic?
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 10:27am
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How is carpooling better than using mass transit?
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 12:10pm
Well unlike most federal employees I have to pay for mass transit. Since I am the one paying I pick the cheapest route. When I drive I pick up three others.
Yes mass transit is better than car pooling. Now with that said you would also have to agree that a single riding Hybrids cause more traffic not less. So I am glad to see you would like the Hybrid exemption removed as well. Thank you for your support on this effort.
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 12:41pm
For thos ewho would like the help remove the exemption please write Senator Houck. senatorhouck@comcast.net
here is what I received from him today.
Thank you for passing along your comments on this bill. It has yet to make it to the Senate, but I will keep your comments in mind should it make it over here.
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Posted By: wallachmj
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 7:49pm
quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey Bell
The 2011 session is getting ready to vote on house bill #1432 and house bill #1754 to extend the exemption for SOV hybrids with clean special fuel license plates until July 2012. Please email the delegates listed below to request that they vote against this extension. We need to get these single-occupant vehicles OUT of the HOV lanes!
Delegate Thomas "Tag" Greason (Loudon County) (introduced HB 1432): deltgreason@house.virginia.gov
Delegate Kenneth Plum (Reston) (introduced HB 1754): delkplum@house.virginia.gov
Delegate Eileen Filler-Corn (Springfield):delefiller-corn@house.virginia.gov
I will be calling to ask them to vote to extend the exemption!
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Posted By: Spectrepilot
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2011 at 9:58am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Actually, it is a FAR bigger help to the "system" than slugging - unless you narrowly define the system as slugging.
If slugging were eliminated while allowing hybrids to use the express lanes during peak commuting hours:
- slugs would probably have to use buses
- there would be less congestion (HOV-33 is better than HOV-3)
- the air would be cleaner
- fuel consumption would lower
- gas prices would be lower
- the economy would improve (just like cash for clunkers, but with no taxpayer subsidy)
THAT'S why the grandfathered expemption always passes with a HUGE majority - it just makes sense!
Based on what data?
Sounds like another misinformed tree-hugger.
Hybrids contribute emissions to the atmosphere as well. While hybrids emit on average 25%-30% less carbon dioxide, they do so with one person on the HOV. A slug vehicle with three people will emit less carbon dioxide than the three hybrids it replaces. Until we have hydrogen vehicles, you are still putting carbon into the atmosphere.
The congestion is a function of too many hybrids with only ONE person in them.
Buses, particularly diesel powered one are FAR worse for the atmosphere. Emissions from diesel engines are many times more damaging to the environment than gasoline emissions. Diesel carbon content is 2778 grams per gallon compared to 2421 for gasoline, but the real damage comes from the particulate matter (soot), emitted when diesel is burned. Particulate matter emitted from diesel engines is double that of gasoline powered engines 60 nano versus 30 nano. The California Air Resources Board has concluded that diesel soot is responsible for 70% of the state's risk of cancer from airborne toxics. In the population as a whole, studies have shown a 26% increase in mortality in people living in soot-polluted cities.
Gas prices would not be lower...sorry, but the consumption is northern Va is not going to have an impact on the global oil situation.
The air would NOT be cleaner. Sure congestion would be less on the HOV, but you would be transferring the congestion to the suburbs as people try to reach mass transportation. With gridlock on the two lane roads in the suburbs, emissions would go UP.
It is one thing to be concerned about the environment (I am), but reality and the facts should be considered as well. Get the hybrids off the HOV and you will decrease congestion and emissions.
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Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2011 at 10:47am
quote:
Originally posted by Spectrepilot
Buses, particularly diesel powered one are FAR worse for the atmosphere. Emissions from diesel engines are many times more damaging to the environment than gasoline emissions. Diesel carbon content is 2778 grams per gallon compared to 2421 for gasoline, but the real damage comes from the particulate matter (soot), emitted when diesel is burned. Particulate matter emitted from diesel engines is double that of gasoline powered engines 60 nano versus 30 nano. The California Air Resources Board has concluded that diesel soot is responsible for 70% of the state's risk of cancer from airborne toxics. In the population as a whole, studies have shown a 26% increase in mortality in people living in soot-polluted cities.
Modern diesel engines are equipped with Diesel Particulate Filters to reduce or eliminate entirely, the emission of soot into the atmosphere:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter
It's similar to how modern gasoline engines are equipped with a catalytic converter. (I think they were required to be standard equipment by the mid 1980's.)
Your data is for a Diesel engine without the Diesel particulate filter.
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Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
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Posted By: Spectrepilot
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2011 at 11:27am
quote:
Originally posted by Pele
Modern diesel engines are equipped with Diesel Particulate Filters to reduce or eliminate entirely, the emission of soot into the atmosphere:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter
It's similar to how modern gasoline engines are equipped with a catalytic converter. (I think they were required to be standard equipment by the mid 1980's.)
Your data is for a Diesel engine without the Diesel particulate filter.
I know exactly what they are and DC metro buses do NOT have them. For a system that is already broke, $6,000 per vehicle was too much to fund.
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Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 8:55am
quote:
Originally posted by Spectrepilot
quote:
Originally posted by Pele
Modern diesel engines are equipped with Diesel Particulate Filters to reduce or eliminate entirely, the emission of soot into the atmosphere:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter
It's similar to how modern gasoline engines are equipped with a catalytic converter. (I think they were required to be standard equipment by the mid 1980's.)
Your data is for a Diesel engine without the Diesel particulate filter.
I know exactly what they are and DC metro buses do NOT have them. For a system that is already broke, $6,000 per vehicle was too much to fund.
From the Metro Website:
quote:
What is Metro doing to help regional air quality?
Our entire 1,500 Metrobus fleet is eco-friendly: 439 buses run on Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), 117 buses run on advanced technology diesel, and 50 buses are diesel/electric hybrid. All remaining buses in the fleet have completed the Clean Fleet project, which includes the use of ultra low sulfur diesel fuel in conjunction with exhaust treatment devices to lower emissions.
Having seen the engine compartments of most of the busses, I can tell you that you're WRONG.
Furthermore, we're talking about the HOV lanes from Dumfries on up to the Pentagon. Most of that is outside of WMATA's jurisdiction... I fail to see what Metro busses have to do with anything. The PRTC busses that run up and down the HOV lanes are equal to, if not NEWER and BETTER equipped than the Metro busses.
One bus is better than thirty cars.
However, Cars carrying three or four people are better than cars carrying one.
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Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
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Posted By: HOVME
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 2:32pm
HB 1432 was reported out Friday by the Senate Committee on Trnsportation. Just another couple steps left.
HOVME
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Posted By: HOVME
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 7:30pm
The Virginia General Assembly today passed the extension allowing single occupancy hybrids to continue to use the HOV lanes through June 30, 2012.
HOVME
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Posted By: cindyjohn
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2012 at 8:53pm
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