An irritating trend?
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Topic: An irritating trend?
Posted By: PhillyPhan
Subject: An irritating trend?
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 8:52am
I've been slugging for the better part of 10 years and have noticed a trend recently that I find quite irritating.
Used to be that most drivers had a legitimate reason for taking only two riders - a car seat or some other substantial obstruction in the third seat. However, recently, I have noticed that more and more drivers are accepting only two riders and occupying the third space with little more than their briefcase or a suitjacket.
Now, I understand and appreciate that # of riders is completely at the driver's discretion. I can even see where some drivers might be uncomfortable with a stranger in the front seat - or where taking a third rider might jeopardize a subsuquent driver's ability to get riders (although not really an issue nowadays - at least in the Rolling Valley lines nowadays).
However, I fail to see the added value to the driver of rejecting a third rider - especially now that rider lines seem to be growing by the day. I can't imagine that the third rider causes that much of a decline in mileage. To me, this practice comes across as arrogance - but maybe I'm missing something. Myself, when I drive, I've never hesitated to take an extra rider when appropriate.
I'd very much like to hear general opinion on this issue - but would especially like to hear from the drivers that follow this practice.
Common Sense Ain't All That Common.
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Replies:
Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 9:14am
Believe it or not- adding an additional rider does effect gas mileage.
I have been in a carpool with two others for four years now. Recently an additional member has joined us. Since picking up that fourth rider, we've noticed gas refills have gone from every 3 1/2 days, to every 2 1/2 days... and no, the commuting route has not changed at all.
You cannot expect all drivers to take a third. I wish slugs would stop grunting like apes every time a driver sais "no" to a third slugger.
I am a driver, slugger, and bus rider. So I've seen the commute from all sides.
Slug'n till 2010 (when the HOT lanes roll in)
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Posted By: Oxi
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 10:37am
quote:
Originally posted by PhillyPhan
I've been slugging for the better part of 10 years and have noticed a trend recently that I find quite irritating.
Used to be that most drivers had a legitimate reason for taking only two riders - a car seat or some other substantial obstruction in the third seat. However, recently, I have noticed that more and more drivers are accepting only two riders and occupying the third space with little more than their briefcase or a suitjacket.
I have been mostly driving these days, and usually I get only 2 people in - like you rightly pointed out, it is the drivers' decision. However, if the line is very long or it rains, I might consider taking a 3rd rider. But having 4 people in the car vs 3 DOES affect gas per mile ratio, and now with the gas price very high, that might be the reason why some drivers take only 2 sluggers. I do not think it is because of arrogance, though.
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Posted By: toomuchcoffeelady
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 11:49am
It is due to gas mileage for me. 10 years ago, gas was what, not even a dollar a gallon? Now it's quadrupled. But, with the exception of those of us who were teenagers 10 years ago, people's salaries are not keeping pace with that kind of inflation.
While riding, I'd gladly give the driver a few bucks to take me as a 3rd. While driving, I'd gladly accept a 3rd who gave me a few bucks. But when drivers are forced to choose "putting food on the table" vs "slugging etiquette", guess which they're gonna pick?
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Posted By: PhillyPhan
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 2:19pm
Thanks to all who responded. I did not fully realize the actual impact on gas mileage. Makes sense.
Common Sense Ain't All That Common.
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Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 8:23pm
Currently I drive but I was a rider for 5 or 6 years. If the line asks me to take another rider I always do. Occasionally, due to vehicle maintenance or other reasons I drive my wife's car. She is on the road a lot in her business so her trunk is like an extension of her office so I don't go in there - not even just to stow my jacket and briefcase. I put it in the back seat. So I don't think it's fair to condemn a driver because he or she has their personal items occupying an area that someone else feels entitled to occupy.
Both my and my wife's trunks have also been stuffed with Christmas presents or other items on occasion, too. Sorry, but I will determine where I place my personal items in my car - it's my call and any input about my decision is presumptuous and unwelcome.
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Posted By: blacksky
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 10:37pm
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
Currently I drive but I was a rider for 5 or 6 years. If the line asks me to take another rider I always do. Occasionally, due to vehicle maintenance or other reasons I drive my wife's car. She is on the road a lot in her business so her trunk is like an extension of her office so I don't go in there - not even just to stow my jacket and briefcase. I put it in the back seat. So I don't think it's fair to condemn a driver because he or she has their personal items occupying an area that someone else feels entitled to occupy.
Both my and my wife's trunks have also been stuffed with Christmas presents or other items on occasion, too. Sorry, but I will determine where I place my personal items in my car - it's my call and any input about my decision is presumptuous and unwelcome.
As many of you have seen, I am squarely in the "Driver's Rights" category. The driver makes the decision as to how many there are in the vehicle.
And, by the way, if that person would have presumptively jumped in my car uninvited, the slug line pick-up would stop right there--as would my car's engine--until the uninvited slug extricated himself from my vehicle. Constipating the slug pick up has a decidedly detrimental effect on the public perception of the trespassing slug (possible blanket party [}:)])--an possibly even the driver, but the other slugs know what he did...and know he should not be rewarded.
Be a nice slug, or the driver may not pick up from your site any longer.
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Posted By: Honda_Lady
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2008 at 11:22pm
I have to agree. I pick up slugs every day and there is NO difference
in gas mileage! People are just being picky.
quote:
Originally posted by PhillyPhan
I've been slugging for the better part of 10 years and have noticed a trend recently that I find quite irritating.
Used to be that most drivers had a legitimate reason for taking only two riders - a car seat or some other substantial obstruction in the third seat. However, recently, I have noticed that more and more drivers are accepting only two riders and occupying the third space with little more than their briefcase or a suitjacket.
Now, I understand and appreciate that # of riders is completely at the driver's discretion. I can even see where some drivers might be uncomfortable with a stranger in the front seat - or where taking a third rider might jeopardize a subsuquent driver's ability to get riders (although not really an issue nowadays - at least in the Rolling Valley lines nowadays).
However, I fail to see the added value to the driver of rejecting a third rider - especially now that rider lines seem to be growing by the day. I can't imagine that the third rider causes that much of a decline in mileage. To me, this practice comes across as arrogance - but maybe I'm missing something. Myself, when I drive, I've never hesitated to take an extra rider when appropriate.
I'd very much like to hear general opinion on this issue - but would especially like to hear from the drivers that follow this practice.
Common Sense Ain't All That Common.
HondaLover
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Posted By: dudte
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2008 at 8:31pm
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It is a pretty simple trade - I drive, I need 2 to ride, we all get a quick ride in/out. Any more than that is beyond the base agreement. I'm not usually a grumpy driver but I'm more than OK w/ sticking to the basic trade off. I always appreciated (as a rider) the occassional driver who woudl take 3. But I also always recognized it as above/beyond. Not required, not expected. I need 2 to make warrant my offering a ride. The other spot is my discretion - jacket, briefcase, empty space. Grunt, complain, fuss - and then 2 get in and let's go. I'd suggest the thin skinned reconsider this fuss before making it more. Let this one drop - it is not worth the agitation to a well oiled machine.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2008 at 7:17am
For those who are new and didn't know this bit of HOV history:
Prior to a date in the late 1980's or early 1990's, the HOV restriction on I-95/395 was HOV-4.
It was changed to HOV-3 due to popular demand -- and there was a study in the mid-1990's to change it to HOV-2 (to make it the same as Virginia's other HOV lanes on I-66, Dulles Toll Rd, and I-64/264).
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Posted By: slugcarrier
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2008 at 7:21am
I will take 3 if the weather is bad or if I see a friend toward the back of the line. However, I prefer to take only 2 not only for the effect on gas mileage (it probably makes a little bit of a difference, but not substantial), but mostly because of wear and tear on my car. I've had slugs in the back seat place their bags on my leather seats and leave scratches, put their dirty shoes off the floor mat and onto the carpet, etc. A third taken routinely increases that wear and tear. Call me arrogant but I take pride in keeping my car in spotless condition inside and out. I've had numerous slugs comment that they so appreciate a clean car.
Not to mention liability issues if I were to have an accident. That 3rd slug's insurance isn't going to pay for his/her injuries. My insurance company is, and then my rates skyrocket.
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Posted By: Leatherneck
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2008 at 7:31pm
Huh. As a driver (of a vanpool) who occasionally needs a slug, I'm happy to take as many as are in line, but I hesitate because, especially these days, there are more drivers than slugs at peak hours. I don't like being a "body-snatcher."
Tonight at the Pentagon, it was brutally hot and I made an exception: although I only needed one person, I took six to Horner Road. It really makes no substantial difference to my mileage, and waiting in the heat was harder on the slugs than it was on the drivers.
Leatherneck
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Posted By: ceejay2
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2008 at 9:59pm
quote:
Originally posted by Leatherneck
Huh. As a driver (of a vanpool) who occasionally needs a slug, I'm happy to take as many as are in line, but I hesitate because, especially these days, there are more drivers than slugs at peak hours. I don't like being a "body-snatcher."
Tonight at the Pentagon, it was brutally hot and I made an exception: although I only needed one person, I took six to Horner Road. It really makes no substantial difference to my mileage, and waiting in the heat was harder on the slugs than it was on the drivers.
Leatherneck
i have to ask, Leatherneck, what time did you pick up at Horner? seems like the Horner/Potomac Mills line has mostly PM slugs. there could have been cars behind you waiting for slugs to Horner.
before the recent influx of slugs, the PM slugs used to walk the line to find a ride. now they simply stand and wait for pickup.
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Posted By: blacksky
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2008 at 10:35pm
quote:
Originally posted by Leatherneck
Huh. As a driver (of a vanpool) who occasionally needs a slug, I'm happy to take as many as are in line, but I hesitate because, especially these days, there are more drivers than slugs at peak hours. I don't like being a "body-snatcher."
Tonight at the Pentagon, it was brutally hot and I made an exception: although I only needed one person, I took six to Horner Road. It really makes no substantial difference to my mileage, and waiting in the heat was harder on the slugs than it was on the drivers.
Leatherneck
Leatherneck,
Although I don't go to your destination, I'm certain there are more than a couple of thankful slugs that sat in today's BLAST FURNACE like I did to get to my lot. On behalf of slugs everywhere, thanks.
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Posted By: Wayne
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 4:52pm
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the answer to this is easy, to use the HOV only takes 3 people, now if it were changed to 4 then youd see drivers filling up their cars.
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Posted By: Leatherneck
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 4:51am
ceejay2:
That's the reason I normally pick up only the exact number I need--like one--so that any cars behind me won't have to wait for slugs to appear. But that day was miserable, and there were more slugs than cars waiting, so I made an exception. I think this flexibility in the slug system is one of its better attributes.
Leatherneck
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Posted By: ceejay2
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 9:50pm
quote:
Originally posted by Leatherneck
ceejay2:
That's the reason I normally pick up only the exact number I need--like one--so that any cars behind me won't have to wait for slugs to appear. But that day was miserable, and there were more slugs than cars waiting, so I made an exception. I think this flexibility in the slug system is one of its better attributes.
Leatherneck
Leatherneck, gotcha. i do remember how beastly hot it was that day. my DH and i have cruised right up to the slug lines with no cars in front of us lately. so long as there weren't cars behind you waiting to pick up (and there's no way to know if they were waiting for PM or Horner), then blessings on you for loading up your van bound for Horner.
so says ceejay, who is the daughter of a Korea Marine and the wife of a retired Marine. so kudos to you, Leatherneck.
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Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2008 at 8:44am
quote:
Originally posted by getmehome pweeze
Believe it or not- adding an additional rider does effect gas mileage.
I have been in a carpool with two others for four years now. Recently an additional member has joined us. Since picking up that fourth rider, we've noticed gas refills have gone from every 3 1/2 days, to every 2 1/2 days... and no, the commuting route has not changed at all.
You cannot expect all drivers to take a third. I wish slugs would stop grunting like apes every time a driver sais "no" to a third slugger.
I am a driver, slugger, and bus rider. So I've seen the commute from all sides.
Slug'n till 2010 (when the HOT lanes roll in)
There's GOT to be another contributing factor...
A/C use, maintenance, or something...
I lugged around 300 lbs worth of car parts in the back of my truck for the better part of two months because I didn't have a dolly to carry them out with...
Those two months included several trips to Blacksburg, VA (~300 miles) and I noticed a 30 mile reduction out of a whole tank that normally gets me 400 miles...
So now I was only getting 360-370 miles per tank... I finally got a dolly to remove the excess weight. (An engine block is HEAVY.) I assumed I'd get my 400 miles per tank back, right?
Wrong. 340 miles per tank.
I needed a tuneup in the worst way.
I'm back up to and sometimes over my original 400 miles per tank.
How you maintain your engine has a HUGE effect on your fuel economy, moreso than the weight you carry.
This was done over several trips and I usually end up at the same pump every time (I get my fuel late at night when the stations are less crowded.) So I know it's not a fluke mis calibrated gas station pump or weather related...
I also have the habit of taking the receipt from the gas station and writing my trip odometer mileage on it and keeping it in the ashtray. When the ashtray is full, I check my mileage and it tells me what condition my vehicle is in. Weight has never been a significant factor.
Besides, maybe drivers should start discriminating against fat slugs. It'd be an incentive for area resdents to start eating healthier. ;)
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Posted By: toomuchcoffeelady
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2008 at 9:05am
quote:
Originally posted by PeleBesides, maybe drivers should start discriminating against fat slugs. It'd be an incentive for area resdents to start eating healthier. ;)
That's ridiculous. Plenty of people - more than are diagnosed in this country - are overweight due to stuff outside their control, like hyperinsulemia, adrenal hyperplasia, hypothyroid, etc, etc, etc. Medications to cure stuff like Chron's also cause excessive weight gain - again outside the patient's control.
While, yes, there are many fat people who really just need to "put the fork down", comments and attitudes like yours hold back the medical community and the public from pushing toward a cure for these other deadly congenital disorders.
ain't free speech a wonderful thing, until you don't like the views being stated? - Ceejay2
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Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2008 at 9:18am
quote:
Originally posted by toomuchcoffeelady
quote:
Originally posted by PeleBesides, maybe drivers should start discriminating against fat slugs. It'd be an incentive for area resdents to start eating healthier. ;)
That's ridiculous. Plenty of people - more than are diagnosed in this country - are overweight due to stuff outside their control, like hyperinsulemia, adrenal hyperplasia, hypothyroid, etc, etc, etc. Medications to cure stuff like Chron's also cause excessive weight gain - again outside the patient's control.
While, yes, there are many fat people who really just need to "put the fork down", comments and attitudes like yours hold back the medical community and the public from pushing toward a cure for these other deadly congenital disorders.
ain't free speech a wonderful thing, until you don't like the views being stated? - Ceejay2
That comment was mostly in jest. Note the smiley after it.
Of course, I wouldn't want to fit a 250lb person in the back of a 2 door Honda.
It's easy for me to talk. I'm 6', 150 lbs, with a 31 inch waist... I eat 3000-5000 calories a day to keep my figure.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2008 at 11:38am
Pele- good for you and your skinny self. (I myself am about 215 post newborn) You cant tell me your comment was 100% in jest. I myself have cringed when a particular particularly large slug has gotten into my car on a few occasions- big enough to not be able to get a seatbelt on.
Slug'n till 2010 (when the HOT lanes roll in)
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 8:37am
quote:
Originally posted by getmehome pweeze
Pele- good for you and your skinny self. (I myself am about 215 post newborn) You cant tell me your comment was 100% in jest. I myself have cringed when a particular particularly large slug has gotten into my car on a few occasions- big enough to not be able to get a seatbelt on.
Slug'n till 2010 (when the HOT lanes roll in)
All slugs who ride in my car are required to wear a seatbelt. But back to the discussion:
Its all at the drivers' option, to take two or three riders, and slug riders should be thankful that the driver participates in the slug system. General rule-of-thumb for slug riders: Don't piss off the drivers!
But experienced slug drivers will know and observe some common sense and courtesy guidelines;
-if there is a line of cars behind you, only pick up two (to allow riders for the other cars),
-in the event of poor weather, pick up as many as your car will hold (while observing the previous guideline),
-don't leave a woman alone (especially at night) waiting for a ride, if you can take another rider, do it!
-if the line is long, consider taking a third slug, but not if there is a line of cars waiting behind you.
In the end, its all up to the driver; and slugs should remember to be courteous and thankful, regardless of the drivers' decision. There may be a situation that slugs in line do not know about, preventing that driver from filling up their car (I know a driver who stops by the slug line proir to picking up his wife at work, she then hops into the front seat).
Happy slugging!
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Posted By: guishermo
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 10:52am
I you're irritated by this, why don't you
do justice to the system, and drive yourself,
and three others everyday.
Then you'd feel as if though you are leading
by example wouldn't you?
That would be altruism at it's best, but
until that day, WTF?
If it's HOV-3, then HOV-3 it is, and that is that.
Slugging till HOT
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Posted By: Jlynn
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 11:14am
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I agree with Raymond and the general rules of thumb. It is always the driver's choice. If I drive, I do pick up as many as my vehicle will hold, but I don't mind one bit because I'm usually the one waiting in that line. I actually get really annoyed when standing in line at the Pentagon (Tackett's Mill line) and I hear slugs getting attitude if a driver will only take two. I realize it would benefit the lines (especially at 5:30pm), but I feel like the drivers are doing us a favor and we should be grateful.
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Posted By: sLugLiFe
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 12:48pm
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The best is when they get mad because there is a carseat in the back. Are you serious?? Why?
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Posted By: PickEmUpAndBringEmHome
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2008 at 10:21am
My top ten reasons for only taking two (and I always drive)
- I have my briefcase/laptop/jacket on the seat behind me
- I have a two door car and don't feel like getting unbuckled and out of my car and back in and buckled back up
- I have my seat back as far as it will go and anyone behind me would end up kicking me in the back with their knees
- The time it takes to get three people into the car is greater than two people; same with getting three vs two out
- All things being equal, the heavier the car, the worse the mileage
- The rule is HOV-3 not HOV-4
- Driver's Choice!
- And the number one reason I only take 2 --- because it gives people something else to bitch about!~!
FKA Atlantis.99
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Posted By: Deanwvu
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2008 at 5:23pm
The number of times I have pulled up to a slug-line and waited and waited and waited... with no slugs to be found... THAT IS AN IRRITATING TREND TOO!!
Try to see it from the driver's perspective if you can. I do not want to take slugs from other potential drivers, nor do I want my slug(s) taken away from me by the drivers in front of me.
I wish there was a way for the math to be done before I get there, and some magical algorithm could tell me whether it was "good" or not to take an extra slug that day. If there was some way to tell, I would listen to such advice.
There is one aspect of slugging that we all have to get used to. It is not reliable, at least as far as time planning. I leave for work on average 45 minutes earlier than I actually need to. Why? Because, some days, I wait 15-20 minutes for slugs. On those days, the slugs have it easy, and get to work fast. On other days, the slugs have to wait 15-20 minutes for cars. On those days, the drivers have it easy.
It's just the nature of such a system. Drivers and sluggers alike get screwed on certain days. We all just have to plan accordingly and get there earlier.
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2008 at 12:14pm
I understand drivers who have car seats in the back can only take two riders. For those of us who work until 5 or 5:30 pm and cannot change our work hrs, our window of opportunity to catch a ride before 6 pm is smaller than those who get off at 4 or 4:30. I hope drivers who pick up after 5 pm will consider taking 3 riders in their car.
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Posted By: PhillyPhan
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2008 at 1:30pm
Guishermo -
As I indicated in my ORIGINAL message, I DO take the maximum I can fit when I drive - unless there are cars behind me. To quote: 'Myself, when I drive, I've never hesitated to take an extra rider when appropriate...'
So, - WTF - didn't you read my entire post? I believe I do lead by example, Captain Altruism.
To the rest - - thanks to all who have responded - I have found the discussion interesting and informative. I still can't in all honesty say that I completely agree with the 'empty-seat' practice, but I no longer feel compelled to pass judgment. It has helped to hear from both sides, and I think the reasons for both sides are understandable.
quote:
Originally posted by guishermo
I you're irritated by this, why don't you
do justice to the system, and drive yourself,
and three others everyday.
Then you'd feel as if though you are leading
by example wouldn't you?
That would be altruism at it's best, but
until that day, WTF?
If it's HOV-3, then HOV-3 it is, and that is that.
Slugging till HOT
Common Sense Ain't All That Common.
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Posted By: vdix
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2008 at 9:53am
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I never take 3 people in the mornings for one main reason. I drive on 18th street. If the person behind me wants to get off at F street and the person on the right side wants to get off at G street then that doesn't leave me a lot of room to satisify both riders and get aross 3 lanes of traffic. So I stopped taking a 3rd all together especially in the mornings and have no ill will whatsoever to drivers who only take 2 riders considering that I now ride more than I drive.
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Posted By: blacksky
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2008 at 10:05pm
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Today, the lot I wanted to go to had no slugs in line at 5:15pm, so I picked up 4 for another lot. I originally said three, but based on the number of slugs in the line and the time of day (how late it was) I figured another (2) wouldn't matter. They seemed ok w/ it (and my vehicle wasn't pristine, for those who care).
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Posted By: sLugLiFe
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2008 at 10:51am
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Do big people count as two passengers?
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Posted By: guishermo
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2008 at 11:19am
PhillyPhan,
Good for you, as for me, I stopped driving
and slygging altogether.
To many funky perfumes in the morning,
and needless to say in the afternoon.
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