Texas Rebellion Against Privatization
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Forum Name: HOT Lanes Discussion
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Topic: Texas Rebellion Against Privatization
Posted By: Bob
Subject: Texas Rebellion Against Privatization
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2007 at 11:03am
here is a link to a huge blog site with many articles on the brewing rebellion in Texas against the massive plans to create toll roads and privatize existing roads. Scroll down through the initial articles to get to the good stuff.
http://corridornews.blogspot.com/2007_01_01_corridornews_archive.html
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Replies:
Posted By: darkprime
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2007 at 11:21am
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It seems like some lawmakers admit tolls are destined to fail in the long run.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2007 at 12:38pm
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I've been following that fight for awhile. It is less a fight about toll roads per se, than about cutting a private-enterprise highway through some backyards. It is kind of like the power lines debate along I66.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2007 at 10:29am
Take a look at this article on the Texas toll rebellion and their concern about non-compete clauses. We cann look to Texas to see where we will be in a few years.
http://tollroadsnews.info/artman/publish/article_1773.shtml
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2007 at 11:31am
Victory in Texas against toll plans and corrupt politicos. They have a veto proof majority in Austin that will thwart the pro toll Governor. Fantastic. I wish we could generate even half of their political activism. Wow.
http://satollparty.com/post/
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Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2007 at 6:02pm
If you scroll down that last link, you'll notice that the bottom article references the NAFTA Superhighway. That's the one side of the argument - some people trying to make a buck. The other side is the NIMBY crowd.
Having lived down there, and still going there on occasion, I'm with the NIMBY crowd. No one needs to spoil the openness of the Kerrville/Fredericksburg area...
That said, anyone been down there lately and seen the congestion on 35? Road size has doubled in the past 10-15 years (between San Antonio and Austin anyway) and it's getting more congested all the time.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 03 May 2007 at 10:22am
The battle against the tolling of Texas highways continues. The TX legislature is dealing with the issue of the contract relationship between the state and the toll companies when a toll project is taken over by the state. Texas is saying that if they terminate a toll project, the toll companies will only be compensated for their existing investment to that point. Get this -- the toll company argument is that they can claim a part of what the future revenues WOULD HAVE been! And of course the guy that runs Toll Roads news agrees with them. Virginia is so naive on this. They don't know what future legal battles await 10 years down the road.
http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/115
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 03 May 2007 at 3:54pm
NEW YORK THRUWAY AUTHORITY (NYSTA)
Perhaps someone has some insight into the formation of NYSTA (circa 1946). In my mind, this is THE most successful toll road. There are also some toll bridges that are good, but for a major highway, NYSTA is tops in my book.
NYSTA is worth a look see for historical interest if not how to model a toll system of roads.
Where is Robert Moses when you really need him?
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 07 May 2007 at 9:48am
quote:
Originally posted by DC2RV
[br]If you scroll down that last link, you'll notice that the bottom article references the NAFTA Superhighway. That's the one side of the argument - some people trying to make a buck. The other side is the NIMBY crowd.
Having lived down there, and still going there on occasion, I'm with the NIMBY crowd. No one needs to spoil the openness of the Kerrville/Fredericksburg area...
That said, anyone been down there lately and seen the congestion on 35? Road size has doubled in the past 10-15 years (between San Antonio and Austin anyway) and it's getting more congested all the time.
Yes, I travel to that part of Texas regularly. The new toll sections along the I35 N/S corridor (including the new section of MOPAC in N. Austin to Round Rock), are popping up everywhere. The Texas highways are set up diferently though, as the previous roadways are becoming "service roads" that follow the toll routes. Toll roads offer express lanes along these routes; the service roads run on the sides, have traffic lights and act as collectors for the toll road exits. "Service roads" are a confusing system at first, but actually work great once you become familiar with it.
A signifncant difference is that the Texas Toll roads are NEW construction; these "express" routes did not exist prior to the toll roads. The NOVA projects will take existing roadways, built and paid for with NOVA tax dollars; repaint, repave, and convert them to tolls. Literally, HIGHWAY ROBBERY!
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 17 May 2007 at 12:50pm
Folks, Pay attention to what is happening in Texas! This is a preview of what is happening here in NOVA...
The Trans-Texas Corridor (TTC), which includes plans to build so-called "public-private partnerships" that are very similar to the Flour-Transurban HOT deal here in NOVA, would involve at least three major Texas interstates and several bridges. This plan sells the rights to charge tolls to foriegn investment groups who commit to building and maintaining the roads, thus taking these public roads out of the public domain (sound familiar?).
It has so much political steam behind it that, despite the efforts of several groups, including the trucking industry, public interest groups, property owners and other grass roots organizations, it may very well be pushed through. Yes folks, this means that despite what the populace wants, despite what many would consider common sense red flags, despite objections and outcries from well-funded industries, many politicians (at least those with the power) have latched on to this as a solution.
In fact, legislation aimed at establishing a moriturium on further construction on the TTC, SB792 and HB1892, passed in the state legislative houses almost unanimously, and still are threatened by a Governor's veto.
Please read more about this at: http://www.corridorwatch.org/ttc/index.htm
This is what I mean when I say, "HOT is HIGHWAY ROBBERY!"
Edit by MDC: Fixed link :)
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 17 May 2007 at 12:54pm
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Sorry wrong link, here is the website of a watchdog group on the TTC, www.corridorwatch.org/ .
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 11:24am
FYI. It seems the Stafford County Supervisors buy into the HOT lanes as "the only solution" to NOVA's traffic problems. Got this from one supervisor last week in a discussion. Was a point of disagreement betwixt us.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 25 May 2007 at 9:25am
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Getting the same from Fairfax Supervisors and State Senator Davis. And her hubby Congressman Davis.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 25 May 2007 at 1:47pm
Some "solution"... Beyond allowing people with "excess" income to commute faster, I don't see how this helps anything. If, as postulated here that "free for HOV" is not feasible, it would make the traffic situation much worse. I also wonder how many hybrid drivers will opt to ride a bus instead of driving solo? Imagine the environmental impact of 10,000 hybrids suddenly adding to the regular lane congestion.
What if there aren't enough people willing to pay $500(using $25 each way x 20 days) per month to drive in them? Ever heard of the term albatros? A giant, mocking, albatros at that.
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Posted By: Galah
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 1:26pm
I don't follow why it should be assumed that "free for HOV" is not feasible, the only thing that keeps SOV's off the HOVs now is enforcement, it's not like we have to be inspected or processed before entering the highway...direct HOT traffic through the toll gates and monitor the HOV traffic ....you could do this VERY easily at entry and exit. The toll taking company has a monetary interest in supporting enforcement.
I don't like the HOT concept much .... afterall I started smoking when I could get cigerettes for 50cents a pack and didn't quit smoking until the price of a pack was over $5 - and it wasn't the cost that made me quit. HOTs will not change driving behavior but it may get us some revenue to work on a solution.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 1:38pm
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Whatever profit is generated will first go to wealthy investors around the world for many many years. Then, if and when the HOT companies and their cronies in Richmond decide it, they may add some pavement. Don't hold your breath.
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Posted By: achall
Date Posted: 29 May 2007 at 3:29pm
If the HOT lanes go in, the cost to commute will become a "tax burden" to the many companies/firms in DC who will anny up the cost to commute as a benefit for certain employees which will increase the amount of commuters in the HOT which of course will increase the cost.....
Wonder if the cost to commute on the HOT will be tax deductible or exempt?
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 3:40pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]Some "solution"... Beyond allowing people with "excess" income to commute faster, I don't see how this helps anything. If, as postulated here that "free for HOV" is not feasible, it would make the traffic situation much worse. I also wonder how many hybrid drivers will opt to ride a bus instead of driving solo? Imagine the environmental impact of 10,000 hybrids suddenly adding to the regular lane congestion.
What if there aren't enough people willing to pay $500(using $25 each way x 20 days) per month to drive in them? Ever heard of the term albatros? A giant, mocking, albatros at that.
The solution is two-fold. First, VA legislators get to go back to the taxpayer well for additional funding for road projects, only these tax revenues are disguised as "usage fees." It makes that bitter pill go down more smoothly when they avoid the "T" word. Second, VA legislators look like heros for providing "commuting options" and finding "innovative revenue sources" while promoting "public-private partnerships" all the while seemingly avoiding new taxes. Do you see the spin yet? Its a snow job and we (you and I, fellow taxpayers) are getting burried!
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