Hybrid Hate
Printed From: Slug-Lines.com
Category: Archived Slugging Topics
Forum Name: Hybrids
Forum Description: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2904
Printed Date: 25 Apr 2024 at 1:49pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Hybrid Hate
Posted By: VA_Hybrid
Subject: Hybrid Hate
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2006 at 9:55pm
Why is there so much hybrid hate? I dont understand? Just because some get to drive solo on the HOV? When you are waiting in line and a Hybrid picks you up, do you decline the ride? I am very confussed, since i havnt heard nothing but good things when slugs get into my hybrid. Are there really that many hybrids clogin the HOV for such hate? When I get on the HOV around 5am to 540am I dont see that many, but again at this time they are open to all traffic. So someone please enlight me?
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Replies:
Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2006 at 7:58am
There's plenty to read here if you're interested in the answer.
Here's where the discussion started.
http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=147
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Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2006 at 8:38am
VA_Hybrid,
I can only speak to my opinions. If you have a Hybrid and yet stop to get slugs, that is FANTASTIC! My biggest issue is the HOV exemption. A Hybrid gets better gas mileage in bumper to bumper traffic than it does on the Hwy. So why in the @$#%#@ did the politicians allow for SOV in the HOV lanes for Hybrids? What the @#$%##$ is a Lexus GS450h doing in the HOV lanes as a SOV? My Mazda 6i gets better gas mileage than that!
Also, referring to the Edmunds article I posted in the other thread, if you bought a Toyota Prius, and drive 15k miles per year, it takes 13.6 years for the Prius to pay off (over purchasing a Corolla).
I would LOVE to buy a Hybrid and get 50mpg (I had a Prius as a rental for 3 weeks and I was getting 49.5 mpg with my slightly lead foot driving style), but I don't have 13.6 years to start saving $$$. Some of the Hybrid hate is aimed at the Hybrid owners that would take my previous sentence and say "Well what about the environment?". Well, I have two 3 year old children. I don't want to explain to them that they'd have to wait until they are almost 17 before daddy starts saving money. I try to do my best for the environment, but sorry folks, my family comes first. Food on the table vs. thousands of extra dollars spent on a Hybrid. Sorry, the food is going to win every time.
So, in a nutshell, I don't hate Hybrids at all. I just hate the snooty Hybrid owners that think they have a God given right to SOV access to the HOV lanes, and somehow they are saving the planet and I'm not.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2006 at 9:23am
It's not the technology, it's the motives of the owner/driver.
A CAR driver picking up slugs, no matter what vehicle they're driving, IS contributing in a way to reducing the challenges surrounding commuting in the NOVA/DC metro area. Less cars on the road = less of just about everything else (pollution, congestion, problematic parking, etc.).
If the DRIVER is in a hybrid and is picking up slugs, so much the better. The additional "less of just about everything else" also adds to less fuel consumed which helps on any number of levels in the geo-socio-economic interplay surrounding oil as an energy source.
Hate is such a hard word. I prefer not to like those very much who would drive solo in HOV, but hate them? no, not hate. If I were to hate them, it would probably be out of jealousy for them exploiting a system that rewards the rich at the expense of the poor.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: LDOMAJ
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2006 at 11:26am
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I don't think most of my riders even notice my Escape is a Hybrid... at least they have never commented on it(or declined the ride).
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2006 at 1:26pm
I will repeat my position, hybrids are just another product, and hybrid owners are entitled to buy what they want to buy. No hybrid or hybrid owner hate here.
The hybrid HOV exemption is unfair and based on faulty reasoning (unless you work for the auto industry). The hybrid HOV exemption has created an elite class of commuters based on socio-economic status and buying choices. Many hybrid beneficiaries may be ignorant to this preception, while others flaunt it, continue to drive SOV, and criticize those who do not agree. It creates a negative backlash toward hybrid owners. Unfortunately, this backlash does not discriminate between hybrid owners, all are subject to scrutiny.
The only way to redeem yourself is to continue to commute HOV. Which, coincidentally enough, is what we all should do, regardless of our economic means.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2006 at 4:19pm
Actually, this whole subsection was created by Admin because of all of the negative sentiments by the slugging community toward the hybrid exemption - so much that the general section comments became as clogged as regular lane traffic during commuting hours.
Most slugs refuse to acknowledge that most people, including themselves, are selfish, and want lanes to be built for them and them alone. Truckers want their own lanes and can cite plenty of good safety reasons. Slugs want their own lanes and claim life is better that way. Sort of like people who buy into an area and then enact laws so no one else can move there.
Hybrid owners have a big cost to overcome to try to make life for future generations better - something that many who post here would never dream of doing. Most slugs do it for the cheap ride - there used to be suggestions of financial contributions for the driver back when gas first approached $2.50 that were ridiculed. Anyway, to help provide an incentive for people to better the environment, VA allowed for an exemption. And before you could say boo-hoo, the slugs beat their chests and ranted - well before there was any hint of potential congestion in the express lanes. Shoot, there's still not much congestion on I-395 express lanes during commuting hours, and yet slugs HATE (yes, that strong) for SOV hybrids to use those express lanes.
The hybrid exemption should be changed - the express lanes should be for mass transit and hybrids only. Then and only then will we start making the environmental impact we need to make.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2006 at 8:17am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]
Most slugs refuse to acknowledge that most people, including themselves, are selfish, and want lanes to be built for them and them alone. Truckers want their own lanes and can cite plenty of good safety reasons. Slugs want their own lanes and claim life is better that way. Sort of like people who buy into an area and then enact laws so no one else can move there.
Interesting, "want lanes to be built for them and them alone". IF every carpooler became a slug, sure, but you're point is totally useless and invalid. You're talking about something that can't and won't exist. There are no and will be no "lanes to be built for them and them alone".
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]
Most slugs do it for the cheap ride - there used to be suggestions of financial contributions for the driver back when gas first approached $2.50 that were ridiculed. Anyway, to help provide an incentive for people to better the environment, VA allowed for an exemption. And before you could say boo-hoo, the slugs beat their chests and ranted - well before there was any hint of potential congestion in the express lanes. Shoot, there's still not much congestion on I-395 express lanes during commuting hours, and yet slugs HATE (yes, that strong) for SOV hybrids to use those express lanes.
Do it for a cheap ride eh? What's your source for that bold claim? How about waking up and seeing that people slug for a quicker commute? Cost may factor in for some (the ones who REALLY can't afford to live in closer and don't have the cush jobs you and I do), but it's not an overriding factor for many I stand in line next to and talk with daily (I'm cheap, I do it so I can get a "free" ride....riiiight...).
Better for the environment? NOT when it's causing less fuel efficient vehicles to sit in congestion due to SOV travel. Better for the environment is for hybrids to sit in the mainlines running their batteries, making life better for everyone...oh, except for the SOV driver/owner/zealot.
"There's still not much congestion on I-395 express lanes during commuting hours"--this conflicts with earlier assertions made by none-other than you that I-395 express lanes aren't congested AT ALL. Why the change? Maybe due to the increased # of SOVs congesting the lanes, eh?
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]
The hybrid exemption should be changed - the express lanes should be for mass transit and hybrids only. Then and only then will we start making the environmental impact we need to make.
The lanes do need to be changed, but not for elitist zealots who think panacea is to be found in an over-priced/over-marketed/under-performing technology that will join the ranks of other feeble technologies. Nice to see the true spirit of a hybrid SOV zealot come out....looking out for numero uno.
Would like to say I'm done responding to lunacy, but if someone doesn't respond, lunatics will be converted and start blindly evangelizing others into a mis-founded faith.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2006 at 11:07am
NoSUV writes, "Hybrid owners have a big cost to overcome to try to make life for future generations better..." OMG! With this kind of egocentricity, its a wonder your head will fit in your hybrid! I guess I stand corrected, SOV hybrid commuters don't travel alone; thier egos fill up the empty seats! I wonder if hybrid owners could use some of that hot air to power their vehicles! They should engineer your hybrid to channel some of that flatulence into the gas tank! (Oh, I could make a stand-up comedy career on this stuff!)
But the best line is yet to come: "The hybrid exemption should be changed - the express lanes should be for mass transit and hybrids only. Then and only then will we start making the environmental impact we need to make." YES, now we know that the nuts are running the nuthouse! When people actually advocate dumping traffic onto the already choked reg. lanes, support killing carpooling, think that our bus system could actually attract (and support) a mass user base, and believe their own spew with this kind of conviction, I know its time to do something drastic; I'll run for President!
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Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 8:24am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]
Hybrid owners have a big cost to overcome to try to make life for future generations better - something that many who post here would never dream of doing. Most slugs do it for the cheap ride - there used to be suggestions of financial contributions for the driver back when gas first approached $2.50 that were ridiculed. Anyway, to help provide an incentive for people to better the environment, VA allowed for an exemption.
Total, total bullsh*t. My Mazda 6i gets the same gas mileage as the Lexus 400h and Toyota Highlander Hybrid, yet I don't get "rewarded" for my choice in purchasing a fuel efficient car. The Lexus owner does (by paying $35,000 more than I paid for my car).
I get 6mpg better than the Lexus GS450h, yet they get "rewarded".
WHY, NoSUV, WHY????
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 11:39am
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scottt - is your Mazda 6i a SULEV? Remember, it's not JUST fuel economy, but also emissions.
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Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 8:12am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]scottt - is your Mazda 6i a SULEV? Remember, it's not JUST fuel economy, but also emissions.
Finding this info isn't the easiest. Still looking.
But I did find that the Mazda 3 is, and so is the Hyundai Elantra, among many others. If it's based on emissions, again, WHY NoSUV, WHY don't these cars get to play SOV in HOV?
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 9:02am
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scottt, in my opinion, if a vehicle meets SULEV standards, then it should receive an exemption to use the express lanes during commuting hours.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 9:26am
You need to apply the "# of passengers" variable to each of your arguments. MPGs, becomes PMPGs (passenger MPGs), and likewise vehicle emmissions are divisable by the number of passengers.
So your SULEV may emit 1/4 the pollutants as a non-SULEV, but if you drive SOV and the non-SULEV drives with 4 passengers, you are equal! See how that works?!
And if your SOV hybrid gets 50 MPG, that is also 50 PMPGs. My car at 25 MPGs, with 4 passengers, gets 100 PMPGs, double that of your SOV hybrid. In this example, an HOV car also takes three other SOV vehicles off the road reducing traffic congestion, and eliminating the fuel consumption and pollution of those other vehicles.
This is not rocket science, this is simple commuting math! HOV is a better way to address our challenges in each case.
Now NoSUV, if you really are as altruistic as you claim to be, fill up those seats in your hybrid! When you do that, you'll be putting your money where your mouth is! Until then, you're just a lot of hot air and that contributes to global warming!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 10:18am
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raymond - you have to use your formula for 100% of the miles, not just commuting miles. You bore me.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 1:22pm
NoSUV,
There's no special exemption for the rest of the miles, so your demand is irrelevant to this site/discussion. Nobody hates SOV hybrids when they are off the HOV lanes.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 8:38am
MDC - the total miles are EXACTLY relevant. That's why there's the incentive with the exemption!
Of course, the math might be too much for you and raymond. Try to get it right, though, will you? If you need help, just provide the raw data and I'm sure someone can do the math for you.
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Posted By: slugjo
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 11:05am
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The last Toyota salesman I talked to wouldn't listen either. I had to simply terminate the futile conversation and walk out. (Just for the record, it wasn't about hybrids, but about whether I was going to buy a pickup truck. I like hybrids, I just can't stand obstinate salesmen.)
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2006 at 12:29pm
The total miles are relevant? How? Do hybrids get other exemptions that I haven't heard about? Since we are comparing commuting miles, and debating the hybrid HOV exemption, why would any miles driven outside of the HOVs be relevant?
I have posted my opinion on hybrid hate several times, and suggest that if there were no hybrid exemption, people would not resent hybrids. If hybrid owners were held to the same laws that all other commuters are, we would all be one big, happy commuting family sharing the HOV lanes. The ONLY miles relevant to this conversation, or to any debate regarding SOV hybrids in the HOV lanes are the miles driven in the HOV lanes.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2006 at 7:43am
raymond = actually, you are wrong on hybrid incentives, but no one accused you of rational thought. The reason for exemption in the express lanes is to encourage purchase of Clean Special Fuel Vehicles, especially SULEV. The reason for the exemption IS NOT for people to bypass HOV restrictions, but to promote less damage to the environment for 100% of the miles.
So, yes, you must redo your calculations for ALL of the PMPG miles used by your vehicle - and mine - to properly conduct the cost/benefit analysis.
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Posted By: twothreefour
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2006 at 11:53am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
So, yes, you must redo your calculations for ALL of the PMPG miles used by your vehicle - and mine - to properly conduct the cost/benefit analysis.
And shouldn't we be accounting for size of cars too...since SOV opponents complain hybrids are taking up too much space in the express lanes? If I have 2 in my hybrid, shouldn't a SUV twice the lenth have to carry 4 passengers to use the lanes most efficiently and ease congestion.
The hybrid exemption is just another economic tool to get individuals to behave the way lawmakers believe is best for society as a whole. It will always be "unfair" as long as some follow the carrot dangled in front of them and others do not.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2006 at 1:59pm
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uhhh, since my non-commute driving usually involves taxi-ing the kids around, I rarely drive alone, so my PMPGs will stay in the 50-75 range. How about you, NoSUV?
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2006 at 2:10pm
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raymond - you take your kids to the commuter lot? Wow! Talk about dedication!
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2006 at 1:18pm
Well NoSUV, Since you have shirked away from answering my questions so many times, I am not surprised that you avoided answering this one. So the point stands uncontested that my little 'ole Nissan trumps your "high-bred" in the PMPG department since I'm sure that no one can stand to ride in the same car with someone as arrogant as you.
Wait, now I get it: since you commute from LR Turnpike to the Navy Yard you don't use the HOV lanes (as you said previously, you would have to backtrack). WOW, now I know why you are so bitter! You can't compare HOV commuting miles because all you miles are outside the HOV lanes. YOU ARE STUCK IN THE REGULAR LANES WHILE WE FLY BY IN THE HOVs! HA! HA! (Ooops, sorry, I shouldn't laugh)
This really puts your rants into perspective. You poor bitter soul. You are angry and hurt that HOV commuters have access to a convenience that you do not. You are lashing out at us, you want to punish us (by supporting HOT) for using a system that was designed without you in mind. That is sad, just plain pitiful! Now I don't feel animosity, I feel pity for you!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2006 at 2:50pm
raymond - actually, I was pointing out that you clearly are not telling the truth. You DO NOT have others in your car for 100% of your miles; in fact, it is probable that >75% of your annual mileage is SOV. Similarly, it is also probable that my non-commuting miles have as much HOV as you.
I find it hard to believe that you don't know the entries into the express lanes. Well, most in the area probably know them, but you are clearly "exceptional."
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2006 at 3:01pm
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Thanks, I feel exceptional!
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Posted By: OneLessHybrid
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 3:25pm
<html>
<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FZghf9F4emE/ShG6UwiyXTI/AAAAAAAAAJg/smFK5f1rGZU/s400/IMG00067.jpg"></html>
How's that for striking back at those smug little hybrid owners? Ha! Get your lawnmower out of my way!
-Clint (onelesshybrid.com)
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Posted By: OneLessHybrid
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 3:32pm
quote:
Originally posted by OneLessHybrid
<html>
<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FZghf9F4emE/ShG6UwiyXTI/AAAAAAAAAJg/smFK5f1rGZU/s400/IMG00067.jpg"></html>
How's that for striking back at those smug little hybrid owners? Ha! Get your lawnmower out of my way!
-Clint (onelesshybrid.com)
crap. would have helped if i got that code correct.
oh well.
[url]"http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FZghf9F4emE/ShG6UwiyXTI/AAAAAAAAAJg/smFK5f1rGZU/s400/IMG00067.jpg"[url]
-Clint (onelesshybrid.com)
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Posted By: danny_slug33
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 10:36am
Hi I'm big fan of fast cars and I'm new to
http://vasnas.nu/ - http://vasnas.nu/ cars subject. Is anyone can tell me is it good idea to change my car to hybrid one? Is it true that Hybrid cars gets better gas mileage in bumper to bumper traffic then normal one?
Danny Wain
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Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2017 at 9:27am
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