I can fix 610 Mine Road.....on Mon 12 Sep
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Topic: I can fix 610 Mine Road.....on Mon 12 Sep
Posted By: AF Engineer
Subject: I can fix 610 Mine Road.....on Mon 12 Sep
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2005 at 8:51pm
610 Mine Road Sluggers & Drivers,
OK, I've seen lots of threads to fix our system - I've even seen threads (and heard 2 drivers personally) that are threatening to quit stopping at the Mine Road lot unless we "get our act together". OK, so that's a little harsh, but I think we can significantly improve the efficiency for both drivers and sluggers - I'll volunteer to step up and help lead the change. I see 2 basic changes needed:
1. Need to have 2 seperate lines: Pentagon, and All Others. The Pentagon line (which will probably be the longest) will remain in the same place. The All Others Line will be on the other side of the median - cars will still approach from the same direction; however, we might need to adust the exact location of this line on the median based on the buses (?)
2. Need to switch line direction so cars approach from rear of line, instead of approaching from the front. Said another way, we need to turn the line around and face the other direction(i.e. cars still come from the same direction they always have).
I need honest, constructive feedback on these ideas - what do you think?
If I get positive (or little) feedback, here's what I propose to do. Starting this Tuesday 6 Sept, I will be at the Mine Road Slug Lot 5:40 a.m. to about 6:30 a.m. and I'll start talking this idea up and getting ideas/input. If the response is positive, I will print up a cheat sheet with a sketch of the parking lot showing the new system, and pass out copies Thurs/Fri (8-9 Sept). We'll rely also on word of mouth (slugs telling drivers & friends) as well as this Message Board.
On Monday 12 Sep I'll be the first one there to get the new system going - I'll make temporary signs helping drivers, and will pass out more cheat sheets for anyone who didn't get the word. It will probably be a little rough the first few days, but I don't think it will take long.
That's my proposal - I'd sure like your constructive feedback...
Thanks!
Wade
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Replies:
Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2005 at 7:29am
AF Engineer,
Good, thanks. Last week was gonna be my last trip to Mine Road. I'll give it until next Monday to see if it's fixed. Failing that and afterwards, I'll be at the old 610 lot picking folks up.
Appreciate your efforts. My slugs this morning said "someone" was talking about the changes and they plan to come to this website to "express themselves".
Get the direction changed and I'll still be at Mine Road.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: minerdhov
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2005 at 8:26am
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First off, thank you for taking on the task. I'm up for the change, as long as it is organized the right way. LOTS of well-marked signs are a MUST! Another suggestion would be that when you say "two lines, Pentagon and then all others" You need to include Rosslyn and Crystal City in the Pentagon line and then have all the 'in-city destinations (i.e. 14th; 18th; Navy Annex, etc.)' in the other line, that way you have Northern VA all in one line and you have all Downtown DC in the other. You can not have ONLY a Pentagon line that would be TOO confusing. My two cents, I hope the changes work...
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Posted By: AF Engineer
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2005 at 8:41am
Thanks guys,
90% of the feedback this morning was positive, so looks promising....
Minerdhov is correct, the 2 lines will be "Virginia" (Pentagon, Crystal City, Rosslyn, Navy Annex) and "D.C." (Lafonte, 14th, Navy Yard, 18th, 23rd, etc.).
1 other change to the proposed plan below - I think we'll have to keep both lines on the same side of the median. I thought perhaps we could take part of the bus lane, but after talking to late-morning folks and a bus driver, that wouldn't be prudent. There will still be 2 lines: the "Virginia" line will remain where it's at (facing the other direction), and the "D.C." line will be at the other end of that long median. Minimal change to traffic flow, this should work fine, and we really wouldn't even need signs (though I might make temporary ones).
Unless I get mounds of negative feedback, I'll have flyers (w/map) tomorrow morning for the riders to look at and then give to their driver. We should be good to go next Monday a.m.....thanks for the feedback!
Wade
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Posted By: RKx2
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2005 at 9:36pm
First off, Thanks for the coordinated effort.
Why is it that the VA line makes a direction change and the DC line gets displaced???
Just a question because I believe there are some folks that will take issue with that one.
I think changing the direction of the line is enough. It will eleviate the bunching up that occurs in the am.
Make this complicated for one group or the other and the cars will leave anyway. If they don't the slugs will and the cars will follow.
Just some thoughts.
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Posted By: AF Engineer
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 4:50am
There was a question above about why the D.C. line gets displaced. Well, if we split it up, 1 or the other will have to be in a seperate location, correct? There was no ill will or devious design by making the D.C. folks move down to the end....but 1 of the groups has to change spots.
It's only 50 yards...I really hope folks don't make a big deal about that. I don't think this is complicated at all...it's exactly what they're doing at the other Mine Road lot, except their lines are much farther apart.
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Posted By: minerdhov
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 8:07am
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okay now I'm confused! So you will have two lines on the same side of the median, one starting at one end and the other one starting at the other end of that long median and you have the ends of both lines meeting somewhere in the middle? In talking to some fellow downtown slugs yesterday and drivers, seems everyone else feels that having just one line (two lines might be too confusing) and reversing it might be the better solution because sometimes some 'downtowners' like the option of going to Rossyln or Crystal City or even the Pentagon if rides for downtown are slow. They will not have that option if the lines are split.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 8:09am
One line arranged CORRECTLY works well.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: Commuter13
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 9:02am
I also commend you on the effort. There are two issues that are being addressed.
First, changing the direction of the rider line. This will not have any effect on the rider, but may help the driver on days when cars are backed up. For this reason, this change will not hurt and may improve the overall system and should be supported.
Second, breaking up the lines, is basically going from one Queue to two Queues. This will have a negative effect on both the rider and the driver. Currently, with one Queue, there are possible mixes of riders and drivers that encompass all possible destinations. Many times both riders and drivers modify their destinations in order to make the best use of their time (moving is better than not moving). By eliminating possible mixes of riders and drivers, you will be increasing the wait time for all within the system. This is basic Queuing and Inventory Management Theory.
Inventory (the amount of riders in line or Queue) = Throughput (Arrival rate of riders) X Cycle time (Time riders wait for a service, or wait for a car)
By moving to two Queuing lines, you are increasing the Variability between the rider mix and the driver mix. Increased Variability will increase the Cycle Time of the entire system. Thereby, increasing the overall amount of time riders waiting for a ride, or increasing the overall wait time within the system.
Recommendation: Change the direction of the Riders Line.
Do not break up the line, Retain one Queue.
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Posted By: AF Engineer
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 10:04am
Commuter13,
Good input, thanks, though I disagree with you on the 1 vs. 2-line concept. The 2 lines are broken up logically between 2 general areas that are fairly far apart (N. Virginia & downtown D.C.). Drivers will still have plenty of "variability" or options - if Virginia drivers are going to Crystal City but don't have any Crystal City riders, they can still pick up Pentagon or Navy Annex riders. Likewise, if D.C. drivers are going to 18th, they can still pick up L'Enfant or 23rd St riders. Only on extremely rare occasions will drivers have to "cross-pollinate", or pick up riders from one general area (VA or D.C.) if they're going to another general area. Overall, 2 lines will increase driver/rider cycle time (decreasing wait time), since we're not waiting for folks to walk from the middle/back of a long line, which tends to back cars up.
That's why the other 610 slug lot operates this way, and with N. Stafford continuing to grow (Austin Ridge, etc.), our Mine Road traffic will only continue to increase. The majority of the feedback I've gotten is that 2 lines are better than 1, for now and especially in the future.
Hope this makes sense. Again, great feedback and I appreciate your constructive attitude. Thanks!
Wade
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Posted By: Commuter13
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 10:28am
Wade,
I understand your reply, but respectfully disagree. "Cross-pollination" of riders and drivers occurs at a much higher rate. And it mostly affects the drivers, with the riders at a lower rate. It is, at times, acceptable to a driver to drop off at the Pentagon and then continue travel into DC than to sit for 10 minutes waiting for a rider. Under your method, this would not be an option. So a L'Enfant or 23rd St driver could be sitting across the parking lot with Pentagon riders on the other side, where if there were only one line both rider and driver could be moving toward DC.
I know that you have more than admirable intentions, but one well-formed line will have better result for the system.
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Posted By: RKx2
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 10:43am
Agreed, Commuter13.
1 line reversed direction makes more sense.
Thanks
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Posted By: AF Engineer
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 10:58am
I see your point. But let's say there's no D.C. riders for a D.C. driver to pick up. He/She doesn't have to sit there waiting for riders to come along....they can take the 20 seconds it would take to swing around to the Pentagon line and pick up riders there.
I still believe this happens very infrequently, and the overall time saved for the vast majority of the riders/sluggers by having 2 shorter lines is much greater than for these occasional situations you describe.
Here's a thought...on those rare occasions where a D.C. driver does not have D.C. slugs to pick up, they're willing to pick up Virginia slugs (since the Virginia dropoffs are on their way to downtown). However, perhaps the opposite would not hold true, i.e. a D.C. driver would not bother to pick up downtown slugs to drop off, because they would have to backtrack back to Virginia. Is this true?
If true, perhaps it would make more sense to have the D.C. line on the south end of the median (the first line they'd come to). If no slugs are there for them, they simply pull forward and grab some Virginia slugs on the north end of the median.
Thoughts?
Wade
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Posted By: RKx2
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 11:06am
Wade,
While what you are proposing, is not unatainable, it is inconvenient for the drivers and the riders.
So far you have had input for 2 other riders and a driver that has given you a direction change for the line as a solution that would make most happy.
This lot is not set up like the old lot on the other side. This would cause a huge problem.
In my opinion.
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Posted By: minerdhov
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 11:38am
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The more I read the posts in this forum and in the other one you have started under General and in talking to the driver and other slug this morning, sounds like most people would prefer to try the one line approach but reversed.
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Posted By: AF Engineer
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 12:46pm
Thanks again for the input. While it's true the "nays" outnumber the "yeahs" by a margin of 3 to 2 on the two forums here for splitting into 2 lines, most of the personal feedback I've gotten for both slug line changes has been positive. I stood in the slug line Tuesday a.m. for about 1.5 hours and announced these 2 proposals to probably around 150 folks. I had 2 people give me negative feedback (1 said line direction was fine, 1 said we can't interfere with bus lane). I had probably a dozen or so verbally say things like "good ideas" or "about time", and lots of folks nodding their heads (perhaps I put them to sleep?). I talked to my fellow riders/drivers the last 2 mornings and they thought both proposals were good. I just wanted to let you know the feedback I'm getting, and that's all I have to go on at this point.
Converting to 2 lines may be rough for the first day or two as drivers/sluggers get used to it, but grumbling about any change (even if it's beneficial) is human nature...even when it's something as simple as this is.
I don't think it's been shown that having 2 lines is inconvenient for drivers/sluggers or that it will make things worse (I didn't see a specific response to my last post on that issue, it would be great to get feedback on putting a D.C. lot on south end of median). I think I've answered every argument intelligently (???), and been objective enough to change course when the facts presented themselvs (i.e. scrapping idea of using part of the Bus Pool Lane for slugging).
I'm still open to ideas/input, including how to make the transition go smooth. Thanks again for your thoughts!
Wade
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Posted By: minerdhov
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 1:33pm
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So it sounds like you've made up your mind for the entire lot that it should be 'your' way? I say try the one line (reversed) change and see how it goes...If it works or doesn't work then approach the 'two line' option.
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Posted By: DREWC1966
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 1:50pm
I like the idea. It feels strange waiting to go to DC while everyone behind you passes you up while going to the P-Gon. Great initiative. It can work.
ANDREW COOK JR
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Posted By: AF Engineer
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 1:54pm
Wow, please read my post above again, I think you've missed something. I'm not unilaterally deciding for the entire lot...I threw 2 ideas out there and spent a lot of personal time getting input and suggestions...and the majority of people who cared to respond thought both proposals were good. We're not going to make 100% of the folks happy, but seems if most of the respondees are for it, why not go for it?
I'm certainly no authority figure, but based on the feedback I've seen both here in the forums and in person, I say we try the 2-line way. If it's a flop (which I seriously doubt), we go back to 1 line...
I sure can't take credit for these ideas (though I think they're both good). I've been hearing people talk about them for months now.
Thanks!
Wade
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Posted By: Commuter13
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 2:04pm
I know you really want this change and you can sell it to just about anyone that either does not care or does not understand, which probably accounts for almost every one.
Personally, I will get to work regardless, but analytically, you are incorrect. I cannot state it any other way. No matter how you frame the idea, decreasing the mix of options is not more efficient. The answer is to be more efficient in the management of one line. I suggest you do some research into Queuing Theory.
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Posted By: RKx2
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 2:05pm
Good idea, once again.
Wade,
One of the ealier posts asked a valid question about how this would work with one line at one end and one line at the other. Made a good point too. Does this mean that both lines would meet somewhere in the middle? I would like that answered.
Because the way I, and most of the folks that you asked to contribute here, see it, the geographics of this lot was not set up to support 2 lines. There is only 1 isle. The outer edge is to narrow to escape traffic, unlike the old lot that has a lager area that people can rally at or cars can use to avoid pedestrian traffic.
If an alternative site is what you are proposing, this lot is architected in such a way that it would create an unsafe environment for those that have to go else where.
One line on one side and one line on the other makes sense to me, but then, you have pointed out, that we would hinder other operations in the area.
I can't get a hold of what you mean by dividing direction on the isle. That makes no sense to me.
Do you mean that Washington riders get picked up in one direction and that VA riders get picked up in aother?
That makes sense to the riders, but what of the drivers? Are you proposing, for example, that a rider going to VA sends the driver around the ilse on more time to accomidate a rider going to DC until the drivers get used to it?
If I were a driver, and I am frequently, I would keep driving and pick up in the old lot or in Dale City. The drivers would leave for one line or the other. And I would not blame them.
You wanted constructive observations? Here they are.
I still say, change the direction of the line. It will work, If not, address it again. You didn't mind bringing it up this time, one more time won't hurt things.
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Posted By: AF Engineer
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 2:31pm
Commuter13: Thanks, although I certainly don't agree with you that everyone who thinks this is a good idea is either ambivalent or confused....
RKx2: Good points, when you see a map it will help. Think of how the Pentagon pickup line is for the Stafford lines....3 (4?) lines, all facing the same direction on the same median, with cars entering from the rear and leaving from the front. It works. Same concept we're proposing at Mine Road, except that there is a LOT more room and fewer lines. There will probably be at least 20 yards seperation between the back of the northern line, and the front of the southern line. Lines won't "meet in the middle", cars will still enter/leave from same direction (i.e. no crossflow). I plan on handing out maps tomorrow that shows the details.
You are correct, not really another good place in the Mine Road lot to start a seperate line....we only have 1 very long median which can easily accomodate both lines.
I'm thinking the D.C. line should be on the south end, and the VA line on the north end (please see previous thread)....thoughts?
I think we have 100% concurrence that the line direction should be changed, and the plan is to start that on Monday. I think we should also try to the 2-line concept....it will improve things even more.
We may still be in disagreement, but I appreciate your constructive input. Thanks!
Wade
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 2:56pm
Wade,
I appreciate the fact you've stepped up to correct at least one fault with the line in the Mine Road lot. Leaders take heat and you've done that with aplomb. I applaud you in both stepping forward and the manner with which you've handled disagreements.
I look forward to the slight decrease in irritation of a malfunctioning slug line. I don't have an opinion on the 2 line concept since I'm not into queue theory and don't go to DC (if I can avoid it).
Keep on truckin'! We'll see how the chips fall.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: RKx2
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2005 at 2:59pm
I got it.
Makes sense.
Thanks for clearing this up.
Lets try it.
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Posted By: minerdhov
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2005 at 7:58am
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Ok so another day and seems more people that I've talked to and have seen posted here want ONE LINE just reversed and you still hand out flyers this morning with YOUR IDEAS of how it should work, blah blah blah. Most of the posts on here have said one line. You say the people you've talked to personally have said two lines. I guess we have to take you at your word. Now you hand out maps this morning and its going to be two lines your way. Like someone said above, I will get to work regardless, but you asked for opinions, suggestions, etc. but continue to see it "YOUR WAY". Unbelievable.
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Posted By: Flounder
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2005 at 8:25am
I've been using that lot for 13 months straight now, and haven't seen a problem. Count me among those opposed to both changes and I'll state my reasons.
Why NOT to change the line direction? Because cars will stop short of the head of the line to pick up folks they know/recognize, therefore causing the folks who have been in line longer to wait longer for a ride. Don't say it won't happen because it did happen at the other 610 lot. Tempers among the riders will start flaring up and we won't have the quiet civilized line that Mine road has enjoyed up this point.
Why NOT make TWO separate lines? Because before 6:30 there is not enough Downtown traffic to establish a downtown line. Currently, the downtown folks can wait in the one line with everyone else, and if by exception a DC car comes along they can step out of the line and get in that car. Otherwise, they get a ride to the Pentagon when their turn comes up. It has worked just fine. Since the predominance of traffic later in the morning goes downtown, then there should still be no problem with just one line. It simply means that the folks in the line need to cooperate by passing the destination of the driver down the line. THAT has never been a big deal.
[:(!]
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2005 at 8:51am
Ok, we've got someone who has pulled in inputs from a group of people and believes the plan that's come together is a plausible solution. Let's see what comes from it. Nothing demands that things stay the same once these changes are tried. Slugging is all about FLEXIBILITY.
Flounder, welcome to the forum. A quick read through the etiquette (if you've not yet) will show it IS driver's perogative to pick up people they know from the back of the line if they so choose. I drive almost exclusively now for the foreseeable future and I do pick up friends I've not talked to in awhile. If it weren't permitted, I probably wouldn't (had to leave myself an "out" there). Mine Road does not work as smoothly as other slug lines where the cars approach from the rear of the line. Drivers realize this who have been doing this for any amount of time with multiple lines (I have). Turning this sucker around will be more efficient for all concerned.
No comments on the 1 vs 2 line comments. Doesn't impact me too much, but the old 610 lot example works well (e.g. flow thru the "DC line" to the "Pentagon line" as a driver). Seems a good answer, not sure what the map showed this morning.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: RKx2
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2005 at 9:03am
The map showed a layout not unlike the Pentagon, with 2 lines. 1 for DC and 1 for VA.
If you have slugged from the Pentagon, you have seen incredible amounts of people move thru the line in record times. Granted the driver traffic is high too, but it is incredibly efficient.
I wasn't to keen on the 2 line deal until it was explained in detail.
But I liked what I read on this board last night and the map this morning. I think it will help the situation. And like N or S Bound stated, if it doesn't, we have lost nothing. and we can change it back. But at least give it a try.
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Posted By: AF Engineer
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2005 at 10:47am
OK, here's the feedback I received this morning while I handed out 250 maps (I ran out at around 0700). Of the folks who told me it was either a "good idea" or "bad idea" (around 20 people), the "good ideas" were about a 3-to-1 majority. Most of the "bad idea" folks were against the 2-line change, with about half of them commenting that they're willing to go ahead and give it a try for a while and switch back to 1 line if it's not working.
A couple of quick points:
1. Neither of these changes were "my ideas"...these were suggestions made by both riders and drivers that I happen to agree with. I just decided to try and move the process forward, even if it means taking some criticism.
2. These changes were initially thrown out as proposals. Of the feedback received, the vast majority was positive. Now that they're "plans", the majority of the feedback is still positive. I'm certainly not bent on getting "my way", but acting on what info I've got to go on. Had the majority of the feedback been negative, I would have ceased and desisted.
I hope folks are willing to give both ideas a shot. It might be a little rough the first day or two, but I (and many others) think this has a lot of benefit. Thanks to those who provided feedback (both positive and negative).
Wade p.s. I will make sure more maps are available Fri for the 0700-0800 sluggers/riders...
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Posted By: TJR
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2005 at 12:03pm
I've been slugging since we originally formed the slug line at the Old 610 Lot and have been using the Mine Road Lot for nearly 2 years. I really don't see the problems you are attempting to address and are opposed to the changes you are about to make.
The direction of the line makes much more sense and generally works quite. Once in awhile people at the front of the line will walk the cars as they pull up and announce destinations, and this will muck up the system. It really is quite simple; the cars enter at the front of the line and continue toward the end of the line until they find riders. If they don't find any riders, they can wait at the end of the line until they find a rider. It is time consuming and creates confusion to make drivers drive from the back to the front of the line and call out their destination. Often the riders will need to walk up to the car from the middle or back of the line, and at the Old 610 lot, riders would jump into the car from the back or middle of the line leaving those who have waited longer at the front of the line frustrated.
The line at Mine Road has rarely been very long until recently, when VRE began experiencing delays due to CSX with track issues, and the most recent price gouging at the gas pumps. I have been “slugging” around 10 years in Stafford, and a number of years before that when I lived in Dale City. I have watched as the price of gas goes up, or there are issues with other forms of commuting, the lines will temporarily grow longer then eventually as riders return to driving or other methods of commuting the lines will return to their previous lengths.
I resent when someone decides for the rest of us that he should make major changes to the slug lines claiming to have surveyed the lines when I am there every day between 6-6:30am and was never asked. I also note there are only a few people responding on the message board - I did not realize that a requirement for input on decisions on how I slugged required I participate in this web site. It took me a while to find this topic, and only found it because I was diligent in searching for it. The first I heard of the changes was a sign followed by the handouts announcing that it was going to happen. As flyers were handed out, most of the people quietly received the flyers without comment and this does not necessarily define a positive response. Many folks may not have had time to digest the information determine what it means.
That’s about all I have to say on the subject right now, because I have to get back to work.
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Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2005 at 3:24pm
Well add me to the list of supporters of the change. I too have been slugging from both lots for the past couple of years. First and foremost, the old lot has had the VA and DC lines seperated for a while now and it works great. Granted there are some bumps with the VA line, but not that many that I need to worry about.
Reversing the line just makes sense because there are times when cars will stack up. Stacking the cars out to Mine Rd. is not only unsafe but also blocks access into the lot as well as blocking parking spaces on the far side. I have seen this happen several times (especially on Fridays). Besides who here enjoys being the first person in line having to walk out to all the awaiting cars and yell destinations to the rest who wait.
Thanks Wade for stepping up to the plate. Look forward to the change.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2005 at 3:56pm
TJR,
Are you a driver?
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: JDivine
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2005 at 4:40pm
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I LOVE the idea of having the sluggers face the other direction and forcing drivers to go to the far end of the island. It's dangerous for the cars to be forced to line up to and beyond the traffic signal on Mine Rd. and the sluggers must walk in the driving lane to find out where the drivers are headed!
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Posted By: AF Engineer
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2005 at 10:05pm
TJR, I wanted to respond to your post since you took the time (thanks for doing so, sorry I couldn't respond earlier.)
Much of what you wrote about the effectiveness of the 2 proposals has already been covered/addressed in this thread (please take a look back), so I won't repeat it here. But I wanted to make sure you knew how this "decision process" came about.
1. Several riders/drivers over the past several months suggested we change line direction and split into 2 lines. I thought they were good ideas, and I still do (I can't take credit for them). So I decided last week to try and step up to see what support there was for these 2 changes.
3. Tuesday I spent about 1.5 hours (0545-0715) loudly announcing the 2 proposals to probably over 200 folks (you had to have seen me if you were there when you said you were)...and I was careful to suggest these were only ideas at this point, and that I was looking for feedback either personally while I was there, or on Slug-Lines.com. At the lot, 2 people gave me negative feedback (1 said line direction was fine, 1 said we can't interfere with bus lane). Probably a dozen or so verbally said things like "good ideas" or "about time", and lots of folks nodding their heads (fewer shaking their heads). I felt that speaking to this many people and allowing them verbal feedback (as well as watching non-verbal clues) would provide a good representative sample of all sluggers who use the lot (there's no way to get 100% feeback). Overall, a lopsided positive response on Tuesday.
4. Wednesday I put out a big ugly green sign with more details about the proposed changes, which asked folks to go to Slug-Lines.com to see more details and provide input. The response on the website was pretty limited, with the "yeahs" and "nays" pretty evenly split. The "nay's" were focused primarily on the 2-line concept (it's nearly unanimous the line direction needs to be reversed). The "yeahs" suggested we at least try the 2-line proposal, and then go back to 1 line if it doesn't work. Since the majority of the overall responses from these 2 days was positive, the next step was to move from the "proposal" stage to the "plan" stage. KEY POINT: I didn't make a unilateral decision, but relied on the direct feedback I was given. I'm aware there were likely folks who kept quiet who disagreed with the proposals, but there were also likely folks who thought it was a good idea but didn't say so. At any rate, the available data after all this effort was still overwhelmingly positive.
5. Thursday I handed out 250 maps between 0530-0700, announcing the changes effective on Monday. Of the folks who told me it was either a "good idea" or "bad idea" (around 20 people), the "good ideas" were about a 3-to-1 majority. Most of the "bad idea" folks were against the 2-line change, with about half of them commenting that they're willing to go ahead and give it a try for a while and switch back to 1 line if it's not working. Feedback on the website was still limited, with the "good ideas" slightly outnumbering the "bad ideas". I had been prepared to pull the plug on the 2-line proposal if I had received a bunch of negative input that day, but it didn't happen.
6. Friday I put out another stack of about 150 maps, to ensure anyone who didn't receive one Thursday got one. There are probably about 30 of them that were not picked up.
Those are the facts of the process. In hindsight, I would have done a few things slightly different, but the good Lord knows I sure ain't perfect. I'm no authority figure or decision-maker, I'm just trying carry forward what a lot folks (the majority I've heard from) think are good proposals, and I'll take the heat for whatever goes wrong. I understand lines may be "temporairly" long due to gas prices or VRE problems, but we need to keep a long-term focus....Stafford is growing like crazy and our slug line will only get busier. Change will be easier now than later.
Monday may be a bit bumpy, but then let's see how it goes for a while, and then reevaluate. What have we got to lose?
Again, thanks for all the input received, sorry for the long post.
Wade
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Posted By: jmv
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2005 at 3:58pm
Wade,
I've been slugging at Mine Road for a year and a half. There had been attempts to reverse the line (as it is at most other slug sites - the line points in the same direction as the vehicle flow). THnx for all the hard work you did. I think (and yes, it's only been one day) it's working out well. I think the two line setup is better. At least you don't have all the slugs bunched up at the SOUTH end of the median w/the cars curving BACK into traffic.
Thnx,
Jesse
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2005 at 4:12pm
Wade,
I have to agree. It definitely worked much better going "with the flow" rather than counter to.
My only question would be about swapping the DC and Pentagon lines' positions. If someone who were looking for DC riders didn't find any, they could just flow forward to the Pentagon line once they got tired of waiting and drop slugs in the Pentagon area on their way to DC. Just a thought, not that it impacts me currently.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: JDivine
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2005 at 3:13pm
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A bit of a mess this morning. Drivers heading to DC got stacked up and ended up blocking the driving lane; the VA drivers got stacked up, too; and finally both DC and VA drivers began to back up to the Mine Rd traffic signal. Us sluggers ended up back where we've always been, walking down toward the traffic light asking drivers where they were headed. It's too bad there's not a second "island" in that lot so the line could be safely split!
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Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2005 at 10:52am
quote:
Originally posted by sbaumgar
[br]What WAS the problem? The only problem I've seen in the two years I've been picking people up is the fact that cars will not pull forward to the end of the median. What sense does it make to pull up to the end of the line first? Because that's they way you've always done it in the "old" 610 lot? Well then stay over there.
I've been in lines that work both ways - with cars approaching the front or approaching the back of the line. The lines where the cars approach from the back seem to work much better because the drivers can call out their destination and the slugs in line can relay it to the front. There's a lot less "walking the line (of cars)" when it is configured this way.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2005 at 8:32am
Good suggestion sbaumgar!
Put it together and move the DC line like you suggest.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: 1line
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2005 at 8:47pm
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Great job of "Fixing" the problem -- now the DC cars line up in the outside and the VA cars can't leave when they get riders. By the way, what was the PROBLEM? It worked much, much better for drivers when there was one line.
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Posted By: go2grl
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2005 at 10:02am
I think the new way is much more efficient. So a few people don't have enough situational awareness to leave space for the VA drivers to pull out? It's still a lot better than the cluster it used to be.
go2grl
SHAKE1T
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Posted By: fryed_1
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2005 at 12:29pm
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
I've been in lines that work both ways - with cars approaching the front or approaching the back of the line. The lines where the cars approach from the back seem to work much better because the drivers can call out their destination and the slugs in line can relay it to the front. There's a lot less "walking the line (of cars)" when it is configured this way.
Biggest problem I saw with that method was you could only fit 3-4 cars in line before they started to block the rest of the parking lot. Move the front of the line where the VA line is now so you can fit 10-12 cars without interupting the flow of cars trying to park.
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Posted By: 1line
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2005 at 7:11pm
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That was the ONLY problem -- if the cars would have moved forward, they wouldn't have back up to Mine Road and the few DC people we've switched everything around for wouldn't have had to walk so far to find a ride.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2005 at 5:03am
1line,
You are partially correct. IF the slugline had merely been turned around and moved further down the median, that would've solved most of the challenges in the Mine Road lot. That was the only change I requested.
Now, I'm not aware of the challenges for the DC drivers/riders since I don't go that far in my commute. Maybe there were things that needed improved, maybe not. I just don't know.
I do know that one person took the initiative to put together a plan, run it before others in this forum, modify it and implement an improved overall system. I admire a person who takes the lead like that. That person is called a leader. Leaders get the credit when things go right. They also take the heat when things get snarled up. They also take criticism for merely changing things even if things get better.
The changes have been made. Nothing is set in stone. Slugging is nothing if it's not a flexible system.
If you see adjustments needing someone's attention, then you can follow the example of leaders who have gone before and come up with a plan to improve the system, solicit input, modify and implement your plan. You seem genuinely concerned that things aren't working better for the majority. If so, step up to the plate and swing away.
I'm always inspired by people who step out boldly to make things better around them and I encourage them as best I can.
Look forward to what you have to offer in the way of improving the Mine Road situation (not that I see anything needing improved, but I don't see/know all).
Good day!
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: fryed_1
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2005 at 8:48am
Speaking of this lot...
Anyone else noticed that the bus is fuller and fuller coming from the old lot for downtown slugs in the mornings after about 6:30. There were about 12 people trying to get over to a line of about 7-8 cars. Maybe we should start doing downtown pickups at the old lot again?
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