Two Lines for Horner Road
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Category: General Slugging Questions and Comments
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URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=188
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Topic: Two Lines for Horner Road
Posted By: Admin
Subject: Two Lines for Horner Road
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2002 at 5:59am
Dear Slugs,
It's time to split the Horner Road line into TWO separate lines. The popularity of Horner is causing problems so, we need to split this line. Effective 6 Aug (Monday) let's join to:
Create a new slugline at the new bus stop for all sluggers going downtown - 14th Street, 18th Street, Navy Yard, etc.
The "old" bus stop will be used for Pentagon, Rosslyn and Crystal City traffic.
Please Read message board comments in two other locations:
http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=201
and at
http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=192
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Replies:
Posted By: Bslug
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2002 at 12:33pm
Admin,
I went to Horner this morning and there is still little progress. I suppose it always takes people a while to make a change. I'm willing to handout flyers, but I'm not sure if the time I arrive at Horner will help the downtowners. I'm ususally there around 6:30am when 90 percent of the line consists of Pentagoners.
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2002 at 6:35am
Thanks for the feedback. I believe you are correct in that we need to hand out flyers. Perhaps trying to get the two lines concept off the ground by 6 Aug was too aggressive and not everyone got the word.
If the second line does not take effect soon, we may wait until the last week of Aug or the first week of Sept to try this again. This will allow time to circulate a flyer announcing the move and to sent out a notice via email (newsletter).
Thanks again for the feedback and let me know if there are any other changes!
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Posted By: ncrader
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2002 at 8:42am
I am new in the area. I just now looked at the websites for slugging. I am picking up at Horner Road. Can someone please post a map of the area with the revised parking/bus stop configuration, so I can make sense of where this proposal is talking about.
Thanks
-Chris
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2002 at 5:38pm
Hey Chris,
Welcome to slugging! There has been a lot of interest in creating a new line at Horner but now it appears as though it will be in the Sep timeframe instead of the original 6 Aug date. For the time being, the original map is still accurate.
You can find the map for Horner at: http://www.slug-lines.com/AM_Lines/Horner_rd.asp
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Posted By: gg
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2002 at 10:34am
If you're accepting suggestions, I would propose that the Pentagon destination be a separate line, like it is at Potomac Mills. I can't really say where the line should start because I've just started using Horner Rd. I suppose there is more room at Potomac Mills to separate out the Pentagon line, but it is very efficient. I like the idea of passing out flyers, but temporary signs posted high enough would be ideal.
gg
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Posted By: Bslug
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2002 at 9:16am
The following reply also appears in the General Slugging Topics. Per the instructions from the administrator it is also being posted here to consolidate all the Horner line conversation. You can access the original post by clicking on the link below.
http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=192
Gold89,
You make some good points, but I believe you are in the minority. It's not Bob who is trying to change the Horner system it's the sluggers who use it.
The system at Horner is currently highly inefficient. If you are going to the Pentagon and you are an early riser then the current system is for you.
However, if you are like the rest of us who are going to other destinations it is at best cumbersome. The majority of the line is made of Pentagoners; you have an unofficial designated person who bellows out points of destinations to people in the line who are too far away to hear the drivers (which can be VERY annoying early in the morning); drivers "cut" the line constantly and wait frustratingly because their destination is not popular(Rosslyn, 14th St., L'Enfant destinations); and 18th street destinations are non-existent as I have experienced especially early in the morning. In short the current Horner system IS BROKEN and must be fixed. Nobody is trying to "SCREW" up anything we are just trying to make an imperfect system better for everyone.
BTW - Most of us who go to PM do so to avoid the craziness at Horner. The valid reasons why we would like to increase our choices for commuting lots are: 1) It is much tougher to get a ride back to PM in the afternoon - Drivers who pick up at PM like to drop people off at Horner effectively messing up the system 2) The Horner lot although admittedly new is vastly under utilized. What is wrong with increasing the choices for commuters on which lot to use based upon their needs? 3) There might be a day (maybe sooner than later) that the PM Lot will be closed as it is not exclusively for commuters as is the Horner Lot.
BSlug
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Posted By: emmancilla
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2002 at 1:27pm
It is a very difficult topic. The main traffic entrance to the parking lot is from PW Parkway. Alter this route driving habit is hard not only because the Telegraph Rd. opcion is not a main route, but the entrance and the parking lot itself in that area is desolated. I would not feel confident in finding a lane of cars waiting for slugs.
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Posted By: mikeyd
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2002 at 11:58am
Many of us at Horner Rd. prefer the option of slugging to Pentagon to access Metro if we can't find something along 14th St. If we split the line you take away the versatility. I would prefer to keep 1 line.
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Posted By: Slug Cheri
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2002 at 3:53pm
I understand both sides of the complaint here and I unfortunately don't have a solution nor will I start a battle of the wits with my take on the problem. I did, however, want to share my observation from slugging out of Horner this morning at 7:30am. Today I was coming from 95 so I used the Parkway entrance. It was backed up along the road by about 4 cars so that no one could get into the lot to park. I flipped a U-turn and parked along the road instead of sit through that line. Some days I drop off my children and come from Minnieville, using the back entrance to Horner. Those days I am required to park in the nether regions of the lot because you can't get through that way either. In stead of arguing with each other, we need to look at a viable solution to the problem. Neither keeping the lines together OR separating them into two different lots seems to be working. I also noticed that some cars are boycotting the "new" system of two separate lines. I came across about three cars yelling for 14th ST. Has anyone complained to the people who planned the lot that way?
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Posted By: Bslug
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2002 at 8:20am
Wow,imagine that! Two lines at Horner CAN work, what a novel idea.
I used the new Horner line this morning and things were pretty smooth.
As far as interference with the buses is concerned, I don't think it's a major problem now. The situation is the same at 14th and New York (evenings) with a lot more traffic, and the buses, drivers and slugs have learned to accomodate.
Let's give it some time for the new line to mature to see how that situation develops.
Bslug
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Posted By: mlrdad
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2002 at 2:58pm
I was riding the bus this am. Picked me up at the location of the new slug line. As we were departing a car cut in front of the bus to pick up someone. Buss had to slam on brakes and I almost was thrown to the floor. Bottom line - the location of the new line is clearly marked for bus use only. Someone is going to get hurt as a result of this bad (and probably illegal) idea.
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Posted By: marydom
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2002 at 8:51am
I have bben slugging for almost 3 year, mostly from Horner Rd. It seems that with the new lot being so large, it should be easy to
designate a "Slug Pick Up" area, not near the bus lanes. Maybe use a specific Lane of the parking lot that is easy to enter and exit.
I am in support of 2 slug lines, much like Potomac Mills has, however the new "pick up point" needs to be a safe one for all concerned.
mary
mary dominguez
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Posted By: emmancilla
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2002 at 9:37am
I knew this was coming. We cannot interrupt the bus lane which was created for that purpose only.
On Tuesday the 17th, I witnessed how the bus was forced to stop in the middle of the street because the bus lane was full of cars waiting for sluggers. Meantime, passengers had to cross the street in order to board the bus. It is very dangerous for everyone.
I recommend to re-locate the new slug line inside the parking lot, either on the side of the bus stop or in front of it. Some people are doing this with the difference that they are carpooling.
Changing of subject, I was driving on my way to the parking lot on Telegraph Rd, but instead of continuing that road I make a right on PW Parkway. I decided to stay on Telegraph Rd to give it a try. I will never do that. The waiting for the traffic lights giving you the right of way seems forever.
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Posted By: swichowski
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2002 at 12:39pm
The same thing happens at 7:00-7:15 when I am there. There gets to be 2 lines started. I did notice a Gov worker observing in a marked car this morning did not know what that was about????
Mabe move the slugline down from bus riders so buses can have room to cut infront of cars without blocking both lanes??????
Edited by - swichowski on 19 Sep 2002 12:41:35
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Posted By: emmancilla
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2002 at 1:04pm
I think no one reads previous replays, so I am posting what I think it is a good solution.
" knew this was coming. We cannot interrupt the bus lane which was created for that purpose only.
On Tuesday the 17th, I witnessed how the bus was forced to stop in the middle of the street because the bus lane was full of cars waiting for sluggers. Meantime, passengers had to cross the street in order to board the bus. It is very dangerous for everyone.
I recommend to re-locate the new slug line inside the parking lot, either on the side of the bus stop or in front of it. Some people are doing this with the difference that they are carpooling."
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Posted By: mlrdad
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2002 at 5:21pm
Suggeston for new slug line location - how about the inside of the island opposite the old slug line? Seems to me this would alleviate conflict with busses and allow some flexibility should the need arise.
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Posted By: Chris Goetz
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2002 at 3:29pm
This is easy. Slug lines should form BEHIND the bus lane. If you looked a the layout, you will note the is PLENTY of room for cars behind the bus land, and PLENTY of room for the bus to move around waiting cars, get in its land, and pick up slugs. This should be common sense to slugs.
Slugging is informal. No outside body regulates it. If you want to make sure the line forms properly, then get up at 5:30am in the morning and direct the slugs. Nothing happens in slug world without a volunteer stepping forward.
The old system did NOT work. Sometime after 7am, traffic would start backing up to Prince William parkway so you couldn't even get into the lot. Slugs would walk this line of cars and it was DANGEROUS. That's why this had to happen. Volunteers suggested it. Volunteers made it happen.
I have been using the system, both driving and slugging, and I LOVE it. I have not stood in line very long waiting for a downtown DC ride, nor have the people I pick up, because I have asked everyone I have picked up if the waited long. I think it's working great, and I have not witnessed any conflict with buses.
quote:
(Posted here for Bslug)
Before creating the Horner Road Flyer, did any one of you drive through the new lot to see where the slugs should wait AND where the drivers should go to pick them up? No? That's what I thought.
On my way home Monday night (16 Sep) I drove through the new Horner lot to see how and where a driver should go WITHOUT interfering with the buses. Due to the design and layout of the parking lines and "islands", there is no efficient way to drive, although there are plenty of places for slugs to wait.
Thanks for making my commute more difficult.
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Posted By: Chris Goetz
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2002 at 3:31pm
If anyone out there slugs in at 6am, please just stand behind the bus lane. There's lots of room between the bus stop and telegraph road for cars to back up, and since there are two lanes flowing easterly, the Bus can easily get around the cars. It's simple, safe, and sluggers and buses can all be happy.
quote:
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST from the loudest opponent.
Two lines at Horner can work...HOWEVER...
The drivers picking up slugs are currently using the "bus lane". It will not be long before they start to interfere with the buses. This is where half of my complaining is. A little more research on the part of the "changers" and this might not be a problem now.
Any suggestions from anyone who knows what the lot looks like?
Edited by - Gold89 on 18 Sep 2002 06:45:24
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Posted By: Chris Goetz
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2002 at 3:33pm
The new line is not designated to stand in the bus lane. Sluggers should stand on the west side of the bus lane. This will only happen if an early am slug starts the line there. Just DO IT.
quote:
I was riding the bus this am. Picked me up at the location of the new slug line. As we were departing a car cut in front of the bus to pick up someone. Buss had to slam on brakes and I almost was thrown to the floor. Bottom line - the location of the new line is clearly marked for bus use only. Someone is going to get hurt as a result of this bad (and probably illegal) idea.
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Posted By: Chris Goetz
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2002 at 3:38pm
Slug lines should form west of the designated bus lane. That way cars can back all the way up, and the bus has plenty of room. I think this solution will work.
quote:
Today, I was "second in line" and stood by the shelter closest to Telegraph road. The other gentleman was at the far side of the shelter closest to the old lot. After a few more people arrived, I convinced the all the slugs to stand on my side. (Due to the bus incident the day prior) We had a pretty good line established by 6:10. When I final got a ride, the driver took four of us. Before we could drive away, the bus showed up and as usual, the driver started blowing the horn. This is not making a good case for us.
Does anyone have a suggestion as to where we should put the slug line?
I'm afraid if the line doesn't move soon, we will be "kicked out" by whomever has "operational control" of the commuter parking lot.
I won't beat the dead horse by making any more "I told you so" comments.
Gold89
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Posted By: M.R. Slug
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2002 at 3:57pm
Actually, it was one suit and one sports coat and slacks. I was the suit. Neither myself not Mr. sports coat were directed to hand out flyers. We knew that the line was changing and we took it on our own initiative to "get the word out". Like our fellow slugs, we want what is the best system.
Since you are so sure that the commute is now more difficult, I encourage you to get involved. Since you have spent time driving around the Horner road lot, I assume you have an in-depth knowledge of the lot layout. Therefore, please design a new flyer that will once again make your commute less difficult. Once you have it all figured out, please begin to distribute the flyers. It's time to get off the bench and come on in for the big win! Remember, nobody likes an armchair slug.
Before creating the Horner Road Flyer, did any one of you drive through the new lot to see where the slugs should wait AND where the drivers should go to pick them up? No? That's what I thought.
On my way home Monday night (16 Sep) I drove through the new Horner lot to see how and where a driver should go WITHOUT interfering with the buses. Due to the design and layout of the parking lines and "islands", there is no efficient way to drive, although there are plenty of places for slugs to wait.
Thanks for making my commute more difficult.
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Posted By: leblanc9425
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2002 at 6:17am
M.R. Slug,
Thank you and to the other sports coats for helping out. I would like to see those who dislike the idea to do more than complain. The proposal may not be perfect but it was a good start. Finding fault with someone's idea is the easy part but actually getting involved with another solution is the hard part. Perhaps those who would like a different system at Horner could: develop a new flyer, organize its distribution, and be willing to accept harsh criticism.
Edited by - leblanc9425 on 25 Sep 2002 06:25:54
Edited by - leblanc9425 on 25 Sep 2002 06:27:33
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Posted By: mlrdad
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2002 at 9:29am
Well, actually thare have been at least a couple of other suggestions which appear to have been ignored.
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Posted By: Chris Goetz
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2002 at 4:47pm
But ignored by whom? Who ignored what and when? Changing the slug line was a VOLUNTEER EFFORT. You can armchair this thing or get involved. That's the point. There is no "slug council" that decides these things, just individuals who want to faciliate slugging and hope they are doing the right thing.
I think the new slug system at Horner Road is working out. I have mostly driven, but the slugs I am picking up all tell me they were not waiting long. I haven't waited long either. That's a sign of a system operating well.
quote:
Well, actually thare have been at least a couple of other suggestions which appear to have been ignored.
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Posted By: swichowski
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2002 at 8:10am
I like the new Horner Road lines. I have not had to wait more than 5-10 min for a ride and now that the line stands back from the bus stop I have not seen a bus block the other lane. Thank You everyone for you effort.
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Posted By: emmancilla
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2002 at 1:58pm
I guess we have reach an understanding in the fact that we needed to move the slug-line away from the bus stop. Talking about the split of lines, I think it works very well. Although I have seen the same long line of cars in the old parking lot, but that is not our problem now.
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Posted By: JimmyJet
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2002 at 9:18am
The new system is working out great! There should have been a VA line and a DC line long before the new lot was opened -- this is an improvement that was long overdue.
My hat goes off to the person(s) who was bold enough to take the initiative to segragate the herd and shepard half of the sheep to another part of the pen! They loudly "baa-ahh" -- but they will follow ;~)
"Luv 95"
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2003 at 3:37pm
We often get long slug lines and long driver lines at the same time. This is good and we are mostly getting on our way quickly. However this is causing some problems in that the back of the slug line is getting destinations and shouting them out even though there are vehicles in front of the new arrivals.
Has anyone considered inverting this slug line?
Also, any interest in breaking out the 18th street slugs?
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Posted By: map077
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2003 at 2:38pm
quote:
Originally posted by mroyal
[br]We often get long slug lines and long driver lines at the same time. This is good and we are mostly getting on our way quickly. However this is causing some problems in that the back of the slug line is getting destinations and shouting them out even though there are vehicles in front of the new arrivals.
Has anyone considered inverting this slug line?
Also, any interest in breaking out the 18th street slugs?
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Posted By: map077
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2003 at 3:08pm
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[?]I am rather new to slugging and I have some questions that perhaps more "seasoned" sluggers can answer. I have been slugging from Horner Road to 14th Street in the morning usually after 7:00 am. I have noticed that the slug line seems to start very far away from the bus pick up area; so far that people are getting close to the driveway to the parking area (closest to Telegraph Road). I have also noticed that there are a lot of cars for 18th St & Navy Yard while there are many more sluggers waiting for rides up 14th St. A couple of thoughts - has anyone thought of dividing these lines up? Has anyone thought of turning the line around and having the beginning of the line be closest to Telegraph? And why don't the sluggers move down the sidewalk closer to the bus stop to allow more cars to come into the parking lot? Right now I see cars just barely coming into the lot and having to stop. This then causes a chain reaction with sluggers walking the line and jumping into a car without consideration for those people who are at the beginning of the line. I'm not sure whether my ideas are viable but perhaps these thoughts will spur other ideas and/or suggestions. Finally, if changes are decided upon, who "enforces" them? Thanks for your time!
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Posted By: swichowski
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2003 at 3:18pm
The line is backwards! It would be nice to have it the other way. Also if we get to close to the bus you have cars and busses cutting each other off and the busses block the whole road trying to pick up people. This is why we have moved down some.
I would like the direction of the line changed it would cut back on a lot of cheating!!
It would take the early people to start the line going the other way to change the direction of it.
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Posted By: gg
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2003 at 9:47am
I'm not sure about the DC line at Horner Road being backwards but the line for the Pentagon, Crystal City and Rosslyn is backwards because no car seems to drive to the top of the island. The furthest that a car will drive is to the middle of the island. If drivers went as far north as possible or closer to the on-ramp, it would help.
However, people will still walk back through the line of cars because if you're the only one waiting, it only makes sense to find the next car headed for your destination. Cheating seems to occur when there are more than two slugs waiting in line.
There is also the parking lot roaming drivers that cheat and the cheating slugs that get in the car but that's another topic.
gg
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Posted By: triskit22
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2003 at 8:24am
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I think we should break the 18th st and 14th st lines apart. Maybe have the 18th st cars (or 14th st) stop on the other side of the sidewalk (in the parking lot)?
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Posted By: Mr. Bill
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2003 at 11:27am
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The 18th and 14th lines should remain in the same spot. I agree with an earlier post that the line should start at the corner and extend toward the bus stop. This approach works at the Old Hechinger lot. Therefore, when the line is long the cars are then encouraged to move down towards the end of the line instead of staying in one place and blocking the enterance to the parking.[:o)]
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 28 May 2003 at 1:29pm
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Bill
[br]The 18th and 14th lines should remain in the same spot. I agree with an earlier post that the line should start at the corner and extend toward the bus stop. This approach works at the Old Hechinger lot. Therefore, when the line is long the cars are then encouraged to move down towards the end of the line instead of staying in one place and blocking the enterance to the parking.[:o)]
If it were possible, and I doubt that it is, one solution would be to have the cars enter the parking lot on the entrance nearest telegraph and exit to a reformed line at the corner of the secound entrance where the pickup point could be. That would get the line of cars out of the road and the head of the rider line at the appropriate position.
I don't see it happening without a campaign of brochures and other volunteer efforts.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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