AM HOV Sucks
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Topic: AM HOV Sucks
Posted By: Hurrytooth
Subject: AM HOV Sucks
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 8:05am
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I think I may just start driving myself to work everyday in the regular lanes. The HOV lanes in the morning no longer provide a benefit over the regular lanes. The time it takes to drive to the commuter lot and pick up slugs is no longer worth it. There are backups everyday now.
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Replies:
Posted By: Geezehead
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 8:34am
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Yes, very upsetting. Sorry to all you Hybrid fans, but it is your fault. If you don't see it, you are not looking. It has been discussed over and over, but fill each of those cars with 3 people and we would all realize the difference. There are just too many self absorbed people in this area. Sad really.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 8:53am
Oh crap, the newbies are mad! (to posting on the site I mean) Tell me about it, I love oh so lu- UV my boss standing in the middle of the office just a waitin for me to show up ten to thirty minutes late each day, then I have the joy of staying late to make up for it, and getting home at SIX a STINKEN CLOCK! We all feel it. DOWN WITH 1 OCCUPANT HYBRIDS!
:'}
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 8:56am
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Actually, this morning was pretty good compared to most, but there are still congestion backups at 123 and Springfield almost every morning. Gotta love that extra capacity!
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 8:57am
quote:
Originally posted by Geezehead
[br]Yes, very upsetting. Sorry to all you Hybrid fans, but it is your fault. If you don't see it, you are not looking. It has been discussed over and over, but fill each of those cars with 3 people and we would all realize the difference. There are just too many self absorbed people in this area. Sad really.
No Sir,
It is your fault. You should either stay home or move to somewhere else.
I do agree that there are too many self absorbed people in this area, but most of the time they are not law abiding.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: VA4ver
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 9:39am
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There has been a high number of fender benders (4 cars on either side of the 14th street bridge yesterday) and broken down vehicles. Oh, yeah, motorcycle wipe outs. So chill out on the roads already -- safety first so there aren't any accidents.
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Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 9:52am
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I wish people would stop referring to Northern Virginia's HOV lanes as a nation-wide model. It was, briefly, 5 years ago. I remember in 2002, I could get from 123 to the Pentagon in 15 minutes. Blame hybrids, virtually unregulated housing development, unconcerned politicians, insufficient enforcement. HOV is finished.
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Posted By: tri2dc
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 10:05am
quote:
Originally posted by getmehome pweeze
[br]Oh crap, the newbies are mad! (to posting on the site I mean) Tell me about it, I love oh so lu- UV my boss standing in the middle of the office just a waitin for me to show up ten to thirty minutes late each day, then I have the joy of staying late to make up for it, and getting home at SIX a STINKEN CLOCK! We all feel it. DOWN WITH 1 OCCUPANT HYBRIDS!
:'}
Finally did it. Last weekend I purchased a used 03 Honda Hybrid. Saves me 15 - 20 minutes each way not having to get off the Interstate to pick up Slugs. Plus I can listen to my music just as loud as I want. Hybrids rule the HOV lanes. If you can't beat'em join'em
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Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 10:30am
quote:
Originally posted by Luddite
[br]I wish people would stop referring to Northern Virginia's HOV lanes as a nation-wide model. It was, briefly, 5 years ago. I remember in 2002, I could get from 123 to the Pentagon in 15 minutes. Blame hybrids, virtually unregulated housing development, unconcerned politicians, insufficient enforcement. HOV is finished.
Your memory is too short. Do you remember how it was before they completed the HOV bridge across Occaquan? If not, then blame yourself.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal
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Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 10:39am
Tri2DC,
Must be nice to know you have about 12 months to listen to the music by yourself. In addition think of your increased efficiency when you'll be required to pick up two slugs in order to use hov. Respectfully submitted.
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Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 10:51am
mroyal,
Yes. I remember my first ride going south across the Occoquan in the HOV lanes was when they opened on Dec. 29, 1995, in an omniride bus that had a hole in the floor through which I could see the actual hov pavement. My memory isn't so good, but my journal is. Respectfully submitted.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 11:01am
quote:
Originally posted by Luddite
[br]I wish people would stop referring to Northern Virginia's HOV lanes as a nation-wide model. It was, briefly, 5 years ago. I remember in 2002, I could get from 123 to the Pentagon in 15 minutes. Blame hybrids, virtually unregulated housing development, unconcerned politicians, insufficient enforcement. HOV is finished.
HOV will have a long future if we do the following:
End SOV hybrids
Eventually go to HOV 4 (at what point?)
Consider HOV 4 from 6 to 7am only, then HOV 3 after that (just a thought)
Possibly adjust HOV start to 5:30am (but big impact on SOVs)
Promote bus usage through ads, lower fares, and metro discounts
Expand bus service to places such as Rosslyn
The shift to HOV 4 would be major and would mostly benefit slugs or encourage people to slug instead of drive. It would be a major change but we did do it 15 years ago. I know VDOT is thinking about it because a VDOT official mentioned it at a BOS meeting a few months ago.
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Posted By: anothercommuter
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 11:27am
I hear everyone talking about HOV and how it's just getting awful and the different ideas on how to improve HOV. I agree with all your comments, IT'S JUST GETTING WORSE.
BUT......
What if the majority of jobs were moved out of NOVA and DC to more of the suburbs? I have not heard anyone bringing that idea up, of course, moving an entire company is a hell of alot more difficult than the ideas that everyone has listed.
Has anyone ever noticed(I'm sure you have) how much less traffic there is when it is a Federal holiday(lets use Veterans Day since most private industry does not observe that day).
If the Federal Government would move outward instead of being mostly consolidated in this area I believe the traffic would vastly improve.
Just a thought from another commuter who is also frustrated with the traffic.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 1:09pm
Then traffic would go north and south, then commuters would complain that HOV only goes north in the AM, then eventually the cost of living and population in the suburbs would go up. I like my govt job in DC, thank you!!
I agree with Bob 100%%%!! DOWN WITH SOV!!!
Tri2- enjoy it while you can, but remember us when it is cold and rainy!!
:'}
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2005 at 2:29pm
It's not the hybrids that cause the backups. How many of those fender benders were hybrids? Um, ZERO!!! The regular lanes have also gotten slower - is that because of the hybrids in the HOV lanes? NOT!
The problem remains the overall growth in the population caused by the increase in jobs in the DC area.
Keep looking to your right during your commute... Until THAT problem is solved, hybrids in HOV makes the most sense for traffic balance. Next best is tolls to let market forces balance the congestion.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2005 at 1:26pm
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I don't understand why some people want HOT 24/7 when we have already paid for it??!!!
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2005 at 1:31pm
We need more people from regular lanes convert to the slugging system and ending the hybrid exemption to balance the congestion.
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]It's not the hybrids that cause the backups. How many of those fender benders were hybrids? Um, ZERO!!! The regular lanes have also gotten slower - is that because of the hybrids in the HOV lanes? NOT!
The problem remains the overall growth in the population caused by the increase in jobs in the DC area.
Keep looking to your right during your commute... Until THAT problem is solved, hybrids in HOV makes the most sense for traffic balance. Next best is tolls to let market forces balance the congestion.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2005 at 1:36pm
quote:
Originally posted by emancilla
[br]I don't understand why some people want HOT 24/7 when we have already paid for it??!!!
Rather than give the entire Letterman top ten all at once, one reason at a time.
1.HOT 24/7 to collect enough money to pay VRE to carry passengers. No more taxes on property to subsidize VRE. HOV will not be needed. Passengers will ride VRE.
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2005 at 2:14pm
Obviously DickBoyd has never actually ridden on VRE, suffered the drive to the Rippon station, been asked to pay to park in their lots (which are now subsidized and free) or done a study that compares the number of days VRE is 100% shut down (monthly) vs. the number of times HOV is 100% shut down (annually?)
No. My wife and I tried VRE: we can afford it easily, but it is not reliable, only reaches the eastern half of the city, takes too long, is inconveniently located at the far eastern edge of the county, and is less comfortable than the seats on Omniride buses.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2005 at 2:40pm
VRE takes me a half hour longer (each way) and costs $200 more per month.
Why would I want to do that?
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Posted By: adjguy
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2005 at 10:32pm
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I heard Montana has a few jobs.........
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2005 at 9:21am
I'd love to work for a Super Bowl MVP quarterback. What a change....
(forgive me, couldn't resist [;)])
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2005 at 9:37am
Everything was great this morning except for the stretch from Potomac up through Horner and 123.
WHY O WHY is this stretch backing up all of a sudden? I mean, Springfield wasn't even that bad this morning but the Horner interchange is?
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Posted By: goober
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2005 at 9:49am
It's also got me scratching my noggin about all of this volume.
So, can those in favor of HOT assume that the HOV is UNDERutilized?
Goober
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Posted By: koakui
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2005 at 9:52am
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I was wondering what was going on this morning myself. I left the Horner lot about 7:15 this morning and we didn't get to Pentagon until 8:05. Is that normal for that early in the morning? It seemed like there must have been an accident or something but I didn't see anything. At some points, the regular lanes seemed to be moving a lot faster than our lanes!
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2005 at 10:29am
My carpool does the same schedule, leaving Horner at 7:15 for 18th St. We've noticed slowdowns 3 or 4 days out of 5, including Fridays.
I believe it is the time: gummint drudges like to work from 8 to 4:30, so everyone hits the highway at 7:15. Lemmings on da loose!
So our carpool is going to leave at 7:00 this week to see if that gets us in front of the pig in the python.
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Posted By: Road Warrior
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2005 at 11:36am
Would be interesting to see the reaction of our local delegates if we could their butts out of bed and have them ride to work and home with us everyday for a week or so, huh?
Probably wouldn't do any good, but I would feel better knowing they were losing sleep because they had to get up before the freakin' chickin's...
John
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2005 at 11:40am
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I left Horner at 6:30 this morning and it really crawled most of the way to the beltway.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2005 at 12:29pm
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It wasn't that bad at 7:45am. We stopped at some point after the mixing bowl but not for long.
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Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2005 at 7:49am
This morning, 21 June, just to get out of the Horner Road lot around 0630 was a disaster! Now, the backups on 95N HOV lanes are backing up traffic in the lots!? This is becoming a nightmare having CF vehicles and cheaters in the lanes in the AM.
MORE ENFORCEMENT - DOWN WITH CF - DOWN WITH HOT!
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2005 at 8:13am
It was about the same as yesterday, 35 minutes from Horner to Rosslyn (0630-0705). Between Lorton and Newington, the regular lanes were passing us. Sure, the sun was a factor, but only because there were too many cars.
The only cheaters I saw on the way were two non-CF plated hybrids.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2005 at 8:58am
VDOT's own statistics show that cheaters make up a very small percentage of the total number of vehicles over the entire restricted time span.
Dr. Gridlock says cheaters cause the clogs in the HOV lanes. How he knows this without actually using HOV himself is a great mystery.
Perhaps he lumps I66 and I95 HOV lanes together. Everyone knows cheaters are rife on 66.
On I95, there are plenty of cheaters at the very beginning of the a.m. rush and the last ten minutes of the p.m. rush. Anyone surprised by that?
But VDOT's stats show, without question, that it is the exponential growth in the number of hybrid vehicles that is causing the lanes to congest. They are the only element that has changed in the past two years. Remove them from the equation and we have faster flow on the HOV lanes.
That's not just my opinion, it is the considered opinion of the professional traffic managers at VDOT.
(And before some idjit opens his big yap to denigrate VDOT's staff, please present YOUR professional qualifications regarding transportation management. You got your degree in what?)
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2005 at 10:29am
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Sponge, VDOT's study actually showed that the percentage of cheaters was about the same as the percentage of hybrids - between 19 and 22%. I was surprised by how simple the commute on 395 was this morning - 70-75 mph most of the way. HOV still moving at more than 35 mph over the regular lanes.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2005 at 12:13pm
From the executive summary of VDOT's January 2005 HOV Task Force Report:
"Traffic counts on the I-95 HOV lanes showed that clean fuel plates more than tripled from 480 in the spring of 2004 to 1,700 in October 2004, accounting for 18 percent of HOV traffic.
The rapid growth in hybrids has helped push the I-95 HOV lanes beyond the recommended HOV operating capacity, which is 1,500 to 1,800 vehicles per lane, per hour."
Still want to argue with the professionals?
As I said, it is the INCREASE in hybrids which is responsible for the INCREASE in congestion.
Cheating has stayed at the same level as always: it moved from 21% to 22%. As VDOT noted, nearly all of the cheating occurs in the first 20 minutes of each HOV-only period as SOV's that entered legally stay on the road past their time.
I seldom see obvious cheaters during my commute, presuming all those law enforcement SOVs are legal.
You can have your opinion, NoSUV, but facts is facts.
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Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2005 at 12:19pm
Sponge...you just went back on what you said in your earlier post!
?
First you said cheaters are a small percentage. Then NoSUV told you they were around 19-22 percent. Then you come back and said..yea..the cheaters moved from 21 to 22 percent. Why are you dissin' NoSUV facts?
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2005 at 1:50pm
An apparent, not real, contradiction.
During the first and last portions of each HOV session, the percentage of cheaters approaches 80% of the vehicles, or roughly 4 out of 5.
During the central portion of the session, when MOST of the HOV commuting takes place, the volume of cheaters is much lower. At a guess, I'd say one vehicle in 15 or 20, just based on my own 12 years of traveling the lanes.
So, from 5% to 80%... averaged out you get 1 in 5 for the total period. Around 20%.
Also, who can tell who is a cheater? VDOT's methodology might have pumped up the cheater volume by saying all SOV's are cheaters unless they are clearly marked law vehicles or CF's.
The main point to drive into NoSUV's willfuly ignorant brain is, the lanes were not clogged until the hybrids started showing up in large numbers. To say the current clogs are the result of a previously existing factor, the cheaters, is simply illogical.
Look: you can trust a rooted invertebrate for all your math needs.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2005 at 4:05pm
Sponge,
They probably counted the hybrid driving cheaters along with the cheaters too, and they may account for up to 10% of the hybrids. This means all with temporary tags or non-cf tags.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2005 at 5:11pm
simple?! What time are you talking about? 4:30am? 70-75 is not being realistic. HOV nowadays moves 55mph most of the way. I've seen the regular lanes move faster than HOV lately.
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Sponge, VDOT's study actually showed that the percentage of cheaters was about the same as the percentage of hybrids - between 19 and 22%. I was surprised by how simple the commute on 395 was this morning - 70-75 mph most of the way. HOV still moving at more than 35 mph over the regular lanes.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2005 at 7:32am
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I wonder if it was any better this morning? I left 30 minutes earlier and had a much better ride despite the cheaters at 6AM. We made it to Rosslyn in about 25 minutes(0606-0631).
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2005 at 7:34am
Have to say, I got to work 5 minutes early today! WAAHHOOOOOOOOO!!!
:'}
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2005 at 7:50am
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Sponge, Likely 2 reasons for the HOV commute problem, only 1 of which is because of hybrid exemption. The major reason is the OVERALL increase in traffic because of the increase in jobs in the DC area. I should know - I came here from out of work to one of the few places where jobs were plentiful. Second reason is likely to get me in trouble with the exemption lovers - before the exemption it probably was easier to catch cheaters, making the incentive to cheat less attractive. Still, as VDOT says, there's more cheaters than hybrids.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2005 at 8:25am
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Much better ride in today...
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Posted By: lvalleburke
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2005 at 11:28am
Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2005 at 1:24pm
NoSUV,
Those were last year's numbers you're going by. The MAJOR issue in the HOV lanes is the number of exempt-from-HOV-3 vehicles. If there weren't exemptions and traffic was heavy in HOV, I'm willing to bet that people wouldn't be as ticked off about it.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2005 at 8:24am
But HOV STILL moves far better that the regular lanes! Without the exemptions, HOV would have no traffic and regular lanes completely stopped. That's unpalatable for all of those drivers, hence pressure on politicians, and hence toll roads.
Why do you think toll roads are getting such traction? It's not from the current users of HOV! It's from all of the people in the regular lanes. Hybrid owners might possibly have more cash to give to politicians to encourage the lawmakers to allow hybrids in the HOV lanes - if not through exemption, then through tolls.
Slugs intentionally alienated hybrid owners - the lash back is toll advocacy. Every anti-hybrid post only makes the toll roads make more sense to ease regular lane congestion.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2005 at 9:21am
I think I speak for many on this site, when I say,
Hush now NoSUV, we get it.
Toll roads, blah blah blah.
If it happens, good for you.
:'}
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2005 at 1:26pm
"Why do you think toll roads are getting such traction? It's not from the current users of HOV! It's from all of the people in the regular lanes."
Who themselves are perfectly free to slug, but for whatever reason, choose not to.
It seems to be quintessentially American to complain that other Americans must be forced to join you in your own misery.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2005 at 2:09pm
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I think if the HOV lanes weren't so backed up nearly every day, more people would be motivated to try slugging. Hybrid drivers forget too easily that it's not as simple as leave your house, get on HOV, stop at work.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2005 at 8:31am
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Is summer over already? It must be considering the traffic in HOV...
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2005 at 8:58am
MDC,
No .. not yet. Traffic will get a bit heavier in the autumn when schools are back in session. [:p]
Next year ... we should give up hope for Lent. [;)]
Keep on sluggin'! [:)]
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2005 at 8:58am
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You'd think it was...and it was well nigh impossible to get a ride today too. I thought with the surplus of slugs there was no way traffic would be bad...
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 11:56pm
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I forgot to mention how much better it was on Wednesday [/sarcasm] Not a single accident or incident to look at either.
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Posted By: 610toCrystalCity
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2005 at 2:17pm
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Anybody know what the issue was with HOV lanes this morning?????? Traffic was slow from Springfield to Glebe road.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2005 at 2:58pm
Rain. SOVs. Monday.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2005 at 3:02pm
Two lanes were blocked because of an early accident in the regular lanes.
Traffic was pretty decent by 7:40am.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2005 at 3:54pm
quote:
Originally posted by N_or_S_bound
[br]Rain. SOVs. Monday.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
Not SOVs! Unless, you want to blame the regular lane accident on SOVs. Oops - I guess it was SOVs - just not SOVs in the HOV lanes!
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2005 at 8:38am
quote:
Originally posted by 610toCrystalCity
[br]Anybody know what the issue was with HOV lanes this morning?????? Traffic was slow from Springfield to Glebe road.
Well, those Hybrids sure didn't help the situation. It felt to me like I was in a procession of nothing but Hybrids...as far as the eye could see. Can't wait for July 2006!!!![:I]
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2005 at 9:26am
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Are you saying it was Hybrids that caused the accident? Shame on you
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2005 at 9:54am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Are you saying it was Hybrids that caused the accident? Shame on you
No, why would I say that? Wasn't the accident in the regular lanes?? All the Hybrids are in the what we used to call express lanes, but from this point forward I shall call them the exemption lanes.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2005 at 10:01am
Let's get our terminology adjusted a bit. Let's address the OCCUPANCY status instead of the vehicle's technology. The challenge is those who travel with less than the requisite 3 in HOV-3 lanes. It doesn't matter how the car is built.
For anyone who doesn't think that additional vehicles on the road contribute to congestion, I'm wondering what their definition of congestion is?
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2005 at 10:29am
quote:
Originally posted by N_or_S_bound
[br]Let's get our terminology adjusted a bit. Let's address the OCCUPANCY status instead of the vehicle's technology. The challenge is those who travel with less than the requisite 3 in HOV-3 lanes. It doesn't matter how the car is built.
For anyone who doesn't think that additional vehicles on the road contribute to congestion, I'm wondering what their definition of congestion is?
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
Well, you adjust whatever terminology you need to. I'm just talking about yesterday morning when our van was in the middle of a huge pack of hybrid vehicles (most SOV). It was almost comical. That's all I'm saying. Take it for what it's worth.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2005 at 1:20pm
quote:
Originally posted by N_or_S_bound
[br]Let's get our terminology adjusted a bit. Let's address the OCCUPANCY status instead of the vehicle's technology. The challenge is those who travel with less than the requisite 3 in HOV-3 lanes. It doesn't matter how the car is built.
For anyone who doesn't think that additional vehicles on the road contribute to congestion, I'm wondering what their definition of congestion is?
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
I sure hope you are looking at the lane to your right when you are thinking that.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2005 at 2:04pm
Nah, no need to look to the right that's a choice for many. Irrelevant comparison. Those who go to the extra effort to make the overall situation better (e.g. a little inconvenience to themselves) should receive a benefit.
And for the uninitiated, comparing HOV to main line quantities should only be done on a body count basis, not on a vehicle basis. There used to be statistics that showed HOV moving x number of bodies versus the mainline. Let's see, less vehicles, more bodies, less congestion, less time commuting, less pollution, less road space, more bodies, more bodies, more people, more bodies.
Let's look at realistic comparisons. SOVs clog up HOV and reduce the many benefits. When the time savings deteriorates to such a point that it's no longer worth a person's effort to carpool, then the benefit goes away thus making the situation worse than originally expected.
I'm glad SOV drivers come to this site. Maybe they can realize the folly of their choices and make the extra effort. Then again some people won't because they can buy their way out---for a time.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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