URGENT HELP NEEDED NOW - END HYBRIDS ON HOV
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Forum Name: Hybrids
Forum Description: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV.
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Topic: URGENT HELP NEEDED NOW - END HYBRIDS ON HOV
Posted By: ronsray
Subject: URGENT HELP NEEDED NOW - END HYBRIDS ON HOV
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2005 at 11:30am
All, the following email was received from Marty Nohe, PWC Delegate. If we want the Hybrids off the HOV lanes, we need everyones help NOW. Write all your delegates below & express your support of Michele McQuigg's bill to end the HOV exemption on July 1 2005 -- THIS YEAR !!!!!!
quote---
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]
Dear neighbors-
I am writing to you today because you recently contacted my office regarding the HOV exemption for hybrid vehicles and I wanted to let you know about some recent developments in the General Assembly THAT COULD EFFECT YOUR COMMUTE.
I wanted to bring to your attention two piece of legislation that have recently been proposed by members of Prince William County’s General Assembly delegation for consideration during the current session that directly effect commuters and that specifically deal with the current HOV exemptions that exist in HOV lanes for hybrid vehicles.
Delegate Michele McQuigg (who represents the 51st house district, which includes the Davis Ford Road Corridor, Westridge, Lake Ridge, Occoquan and parts of Woodbridge and Dale City) has proposed a bill that will END the exemption for hybrid vehicles EARLIER than is currently planned. HB2849 would terminate the exemption on July 1, 2005.
You can see the bill in its entirety on the General Assembly’s website by clicking here… HB2849
On the other hand, Senator Jay O’Brien (who represents the 39th senate district, which includes the Davis Ford corridor, Westridge and parts of Lake Ridge, as well as the Clifton area of Fairfax) has proposed a bill that will EXTEND the exemption for hybrid vehicles LONGER than is currently planned. SB1264 would add an additional two years to the exemption, guaranteeing that it remain in place until July 1, 2008.
You can see the bill in its entirety on the General Assembly’s website by clicking here… SB1264
Obviously, these bills are in direct conflict with one and other so it is not possible that they can both pass. Indeed, it is certainly very possible that neither will pass and the time limit for the exemption will not change. However, since I know that many people are very concerned with this issue, I would strongly encourage you to contact your Legislators in Richmond to let them know how you feel about these proposals. Prince William County’s delegation can be reached at the following addresses…
Delegate McQuigg mailto:Del_McQuigg@house.state.va.us
Delegate Marshall mailto:Del_BMarshall@house.state.va.us
Delegate Lingamfelter mailto:Del_Lingamfelter@house.state.va.us
Delegate Parrish mailto:Del_Parrish@house.state.va.us
Delegate Frederick mailto:delegate@va52.com
Senator O’Brien mailto:district39@sov.state.va.us
Senator Puller mailto:district36@sov.state.va.us
Senator Colgan email: district29@sov.state.va.us
Senator Chichester mailto:district28@sov.state.va.us
I hope that this information is helpful to you. If it is, please feel free to share this e-mail with anyone else who you think might be interested in it. Because this is state legislation, I do not have much more information than I have included here, however, if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact my office at any time (703-792-4620 or mnohe@pwcgov.org) at any time and we will try to get your questions answered.
Yours,
Marty Nohe
[:)][:)][:)][:)]end quote
Please, WRITE TODAY !!!!
Martin E. Nohe
Coles District Supervisor
703-792-4620
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Replies:
Posted By: terratoo
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2005 at 12:03pm
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Personally, I feel that hybrid cars should be allowed to stay in the HOV lanes... as long as they have 3 people in them. ;)
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Posted By: washpost
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2005 at 3:07pm
This is Post reporter Steven Ginsberg. A hybrid bill that would extend their exemption for two more years may come up in a state Senate committee today and I'm hoping to talk to people on both sides of the hybrid/HOV debate. Please e-mail me at ginsbergs@washpost.com. Thanks for any help.
Steven
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Posted By: Enrique Mahecha
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2005 at 8:22am
Hi everyone.
We have a group of slugs looking for a home. We are basically becoming active against "Hybrids," on the HOV, for obvious reasons.
BTW, let me get something out of the way, which should be obvious but... We are NOT against the cars per se. The technology is FANTASTIC, that is not the issue. The issue is that the HOV is getting clogged up every year, to the point, that all cars, regardless of its type, MUST have 3 people minimum, and the sooner we can enforce this, the better.
Ok, that is our position.
Question: Does anyone leads this forum/subject? - Is it ok if we conduct our emailing here?
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Posted By: ronsray
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2005 at 4:11pm
All,
I received a call from a few folks in Richmond today. The individual bills that affect the Hybrid issues will be presented & heard by the committee on Tuesday Morning.
In our discussion, we talked about the best way to influence legislation. The following suggestions were made concerning this.
1. Write SHORT personalized emails to members of the transportation sub-committee. (1 or 2 paragraphs)
2. Put a personal face on it. (Examples how this affects you!)Remember that many of the delegates live in towns that don't even have a stop sign.
3. Don't be nasty. ASK for their help.
Remember, they meet on Tuesday, which means that any emails sent need to go out real soon.
Thanks to all for your help !
---------------
Email addresses for Transportation Sub-Committee Members
del_Wardrup@house.state.va.us
del_May@house.state.va.us
del_Wardrup@house.state.va.us
del_Black@house.state.va.us
del_Welch@house.state.va.us
del_Saxman@house.state.va.us
del_Carrico@house.state.va.us
del_Cosgrove@house.state.va.us
del_Gear@house.state.va.us
del_Oder@house.state.va.us
del_Rust@house.state.va.us
del_McDougle@house.state.va.us
del_Hugo@house.state.va.us
del_Scott@house.state.va.us
del_Fralin@house.state.va.us
del_Stump@house.state.va.us
del_Jones@house.state.va.us
del_Moran@house.state.va.us
del_Pollard@house.state.va.us
del_Ward@house.state.va.us
del_Ebbin@house.state.va.us
del_BaCote@house.state.va.us
del_williams@house.stste.va.us
district17@sov.state.va.us
district05@sov.state.va.us
district16@sov.state.va.us
district23@sov.state.va.us
district10@sov.state.va.us
district38@sov.state.va.us
district33@sov.state.va.us
district06@sov.state.va.us
district07@sov.state.va.us
district14@sov.state.va.us
district25@sov.state.va.us
district39@sov.state.va.us
district22@sov.state.va.us
district34@sov.state.va.us
Ron
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Posted By: Enrique Mahecha
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2005 at 8:50pm
Hi Guys,
Let me understand, are you saying we should write to ALL, SOME, or just the legislators in our respective districts?
I seem to understand, it's being suggested to contact all of them, ideally. Is this correct?
Enrique
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Posted By: defender
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2005 at 10:13pm
Thanks to various writers, there have been several articles on the breakdown of the HOV lanes in Northern Virginia. Most noted what thousands of car-pooling Northern Virginia commuters already know; if you want to legally cheat HOV-3, buy a so-called hybrid. If you want to defeat HOV, you may also buy a hybrid.
The legislators may have intended well by allowing hundreds small, “clean fuel” cars onto the HOV-3. However, the hundreds have multiplied to be thousands and now include full-sized LPG fueled trucks, CNG fueled Crown Victorias, and conventionally fueled, Ford Excape SUVs. Almost to a vehicle, these run through a legal loophole and onto the HOV-3 with “room for five, while ridden by one.”
This week, we are at a critical point. Our Legislators, particularly those who chair or sit on transportation sub-committees, need to understand how bad the daily commute has become, and why HOV is critically ill. The sickness is rooted in one cause. However, we have a simple and effective cure.
The Virginia Legislators needs to excise the cancer from the HOV. They need to END ALL EXCEPTIONS THAT ALLOW SOLO DRIVERS IN THESE LANES. Overnight, we will gain a potential to move 4,000 additional commuters without putting another car on the road. Ending the exceptions will decrease overall pollution by putting multiple commuters in the existing clean fuel vehicles. It will relieve HOV congestion. Best yet, it will do this at no additional cost to the taxpayer.
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Posted By: cthomas25
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2005 at 3:25pm
Someone on another forum posted the message below. I hope they don't mind me posting it on under this topic. [:I] I think it's important for everyone to see this. [8)]
Del. Michele Mcquigg has posted a survey on her web site about the issue. Let your feelings be known at: http://www.mcquigg.com/survey_hybridhov.asp
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2005 at 9:47am
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Please stop posting the same message in every folder. If you have a statement you want everyone to see, start a new thread.
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Posted By: defender
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2005 at 2:11pm
quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
[br]Please stop posting the same message in every folder. If you have a statement you want everyone to see, start a new thread.
Did you cut and paste the letters? Did you contact the legislators?
Fuller Underwood II
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Posted By: defender
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2005 at 2:12pm
quote:
Originally posted by Enrique Mahecha
[br]Hi Guys,
Let me understand, are you saying we should write to ALL, SOME, or just the legislators in our respective districts?
I seem to understand, it's being suggested to contact all of them, ideally. Is this correct?
Enrique
I took the time Friday and Saturday to do all.
Fuller Underwood II
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2005 at 4:40pm
To each his own. Form letters don't strike me as useful in shifting a legislator's mind. It becomes a numbers game for them: how many on this side, how many on that side.... Also, I think people who already have CF tags should get to use them til the agreed-upon drop-dead date. But I commend and applaud your effort.
But I get your point, so I'm active on the issue of Toll Roads, having spoken before the PWC Supervisors and attended the nascent anti-toll roads citizen's group meeting, along with about ten other people. I intend to contribute my best efforts to salvage as much of the current system as we can, though I rate our chances at less than 1 in 50.
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Posted By: Enrique Mahecha
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2005 at 11:17am
Defender, SpongeBob,
I also congratulate you Defender! - letters, numbers... To me, considering that I have never been an activist (if I am using the right word), someone who engages and actually does something for a cause, such as Defender just did, doing something, rather than standing on the sidelines is a victory in itself! - because chances are, you will write another email and another one, and suddenly, you are involved. And to me, that is the challege, to bring people on the sidelines, and bring them into action. And I am not referring directly to Defender, because he maybe already involved in all kinds of stuff, but to others who read this stuff and might get inspired and join us.
For instance, again, I am not up on all the stuff that is going on, but I believe my VA Senator O'Brian, was actually sponsoring a pro-hybrids bill, and per McQuigg's email yesterday. He 'struck' it. I happened to have written and spirited email to him [:o)], I don't know if my email had any effect on him... But I feel "pretty good" about it .
It's much better to do something, thant to do nothing. don't you both agree?
E
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Posted By: defender
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2005 at 3:14pm
quote:
Originally posted by Enrique Mahecha
[br]Defender, SpongeBob,
I also congratulate you Defender! . . .
Thank you, and I send the same for you.
There are some of us who know that you need to make the time and write, or take a day off at some point and go to Richmond and testify. It does influence people.
Specific to the Senate and Delegates, there are many who live south and west who do not know about the issue, or that it is so bad. Your e-mail will influence them. BTW, there is one that has phone or FAX only. Send a fax. It is harder and he uses that as the first screen.
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Posted By: Enrique Mahecha
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2005 at 10:37am
Latest update from Michelle McQuigg. I am telling you this lady is beginning to win my hear :) she is active and is representing well so far. OK, SO WHO HAS IDEAS AS TO WHAT DEALERS SHOULD WE HIT?
===================================
Update on HB 2849. I had drafted some amendments to limit the
restrictions to just I-95. There were enough votes to reconsider the bill in committee; however, there were not enough votes to get it out of committee. The Virginia Automobile Dealers Association and the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers were busy lobbying the members of the committee.
What I did receive from representatives of the Association and the
Alliance were assurances that they would inform their members that the hybrid HOV exemption would expire on July 1, 2006 and for them to let customers know. I told them that I would have some secret shoppers go to the automobile dealers and find out if they are informing the public of the hybrid exemption expiration. If they were not, I would make at least one speech about it on the floor of the House.
As the goal is to not have more SOVs on the HOV, I thought that
informing people of the expiration would discourage them from buying the vehicles for the sole purpose of using the HOV lanes.
I need your help. Would you please visit an auto dealer in the next
week and a half and pretend to look at a hybrid and inquire if you could use it on the HOV lanes as an SOV? Please let me know to which dealership you went, when, who you spoke with and what they told you. This needs to me done now if I use the power of the floor of the House to change hybrid salesmen behavior. The General Assembly will adjourn in less than 3 weeks.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Thank you,
Michèle
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Posted By: vabigblue
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2005 at 10:01am
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I slug out of Tacketts everyday around 6:15. I saw and rode in a Toyota hybrid this morning and the lady not only took two from the line, she took three. I don't know if that's a first, but, it sure did take me by surprise. Kudos to whoever she was.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2005 at 2:20pm
Curious about the total cost of owning an automobile?
http://about.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/59897/article.html
Curious about the Northern Virginia 2020 Transportation Plan?
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/nova/nv2020/techdocs/docsects/17to1735.htm
Any comments from slugs on the forecast speed for HOV as compared to METRO? The report quotes METRO top speed, but not elapsed time. Contrast this with adding in waiting time for HOV but not for transit.
It is nice that slugs are contacting their local representatives. Might I suggest for more poliitcal effect that slugs begin contacting the Commonwealth Transportation Board?
If slugs don't comment on these planning reports, you can forget about slugging. Anti-jitney laws will be the end of slugs.
First, slugs will lose neighborhood parking, then they will lose time advantage as the reversible lanes are operated at capacity instead of free flow.
VDOT used to have a calculator to determine the cost savings of car pooling. That calculator was heavily biased toward buses and trains. Any comments from slugs on cost saving and time saving of slugging?
The greatest commodity in rush hour is empty seats in the cars of drive alones. Want to make a difference? Pusuade a drive alone to become a slug or to pick up slugs. Post something about slugs on the bulletin board at work. Find a more conventient meeting place for slugs.
Slugs rock!
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2005 at 2:29pm
If you do write a delegate outside Prince William County, you might point out that northern Virginia is the elephant in the tent.
Building enough roads so northern Virginia commuters can drive alone will eat up Virginia's transportation budget. No money left to even fix potholes in Blacksburg. Or if the state really wants to spend that kind of money, they could invest in local businesses that generate less traffic, or at least shorter trips.
Slugs have cracked the code on how to cooperate for a faster commute. Why hide that knowledge? Recruit a driver alone!
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2005 at 3:14pm
If you are really ambitious, you might include Virginia State Police on your pro HOV mailing list.
Most police can't afford to live in northern Virginia. Most of the Troopers that patrol Shirley Highway are from some other part of the state. Shirley Highway and the Beltway may be the first congested highways that they have ever seen.
Police have not been trained in the nuances of free flow traffic. They have more likely been indoctrinated in capacity flow.
Police have no incentive to enforce occupancy requirements. Reversible Shirley is dangerous for random stops. There has been one fatality of a trooper enforcing HOV rules. There may be some hesitancy to enforce something that does not seem to be worth while. Read "worth while" as guidance from on high. On high being Richmond, not the local Barracks.
Alternate locations of enforcement would be safer. Also recruiting local police to enforce would help.
But all that is moot if there aren't enough slugs to fill the seats and not enough drivers to pick up slugs.
Recruit a slug a day. Get enough slugs and ALL the lanes will flow freely. Not just the reversible lanes.
Police do have a lot of pressure from the drive alones to open up Shirley reversible lanes first come first serve.
Police also have lot of pressure to squash slugs in favor of transit.
For instance Braeburn Drive in Fairfax County could be better served by slugs than METRO buses. For the amount of subsidy given METRO, people could even be paid to ride as slugs.
A voice crying in the wilderness.
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: nashiggy
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2005 at 7:54am
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hybrids should have to have 3 people also!!!!!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2005 at 9:33am
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The problem remains on how to reduce the OVERALL congestion. HOV lanes generally have excess capacity, especially compared to the regular lanes. A balancing effort is needed. One way is to allow some of the SOVs into the HOVs, which is what the hybrid exemption does quite nicely. Another way is through the use of tolls, which would allow market forces to achieve the balance by raising/lowering the toll until the desired balance is achieved. Toll could be graduated based on occupancy: $4 base fare, reduced by $2 for each additional passenger. Could make "CF" plates count as an additional person. HOV-3 still ride for free; SOV hybrids pay $2; regular SOVs pay $4. If HOV lanes are too crowded, double the toll. If balance too far the other way, cut the toll in half. Everyone wins.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2005 at 9:50am
It's elitist.
It ends slugging.
It increases congestion.
No guarantees that HOV will remain free or even cheaper.
No guarantees of anything.
We give up control of public highways.
Non-compete clause impairs future construction.
It increases pollution.
Everyone loses.
Bob
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 7:50am
quote:
Originally posted by Bob
[br]It's elitist.
It ends slugging.
It increases congestion.
No guarantees that HOV will remain free or even cheaper.
No guarantees of anything.
We give up control of public highways.
Non-compete clause impairs future construction.
It increases pollution.
Everyone loses.
--
Not elitist - in fact, more egalitarian than system currently in use.
Won't end slugging - picking up slugs saves driver $2K/year.
No guarantees that HOV will remain the same as today - in fact, HOV highly unlikely to remain the same.
We have as much control of public highways as now.
Non-compete clause has no bearing.
Pollution decreases.
--
Was on HOV 395 4pm on 4/4/05. No other cars around for 1/4 mile. Regular lanes moving at a snail's pace. Only a matter of time before transportation officials figure out that HOV has unused capacity much of the time compared to regular lanes and get around to fixing it. You have a choice: do the ostrich with your head in the sand, or come up with a better solution. BTW, saying that the current method works is ignoring the facts.
Bob
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 7:57am
Which expert came up with the concept that we have two choices:
do nothing, or HOT? That is bogus and is one of the things that outrages so many people about this.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 12:28pm
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OK. So aside from HOT and extending hybrid exemption, what's your idea?
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 1:27pm
I have lots of ideas, but I don't really think it is up to us to propose them. What to we pay VDOT for?
My main principal is to not ruin HOV by doing the conversion. I am not opposed to tolls as long as new concrete is laid down to widen the road such as the Dulles Greenway and other new build roads. NO conversions of successful lanes. I have said that a full toll road down to Fredericksburg could be a valid concept.
But again, we are being set up here with this choice of nothing or HOT. As HOV users, I dont think we can or need to agree on what all the alternatives are. But for heavens sake, they should be laid out and discussed. That is not happening at ALL!
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 2:14pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]OK. So aside from HOT and extending hybrid exemption, what's your idea?
1. Provide more park and ride lots.
2. VDOT or County negotiate with Churches, bowling alleys, swim clubs, soccer fields and businesses that can handle slug parking. Behind mall buildings, county park buildings, PG&E or VDOT maintenance yards, etc.
3. Allow on street parking for slugs on streets like Guinea, Wakefield Chapel or Braeburn in Fairfax County. Eliminante the route 29 buses. Use the money to PAY slugs to ride. Use an on demand van for mid day service.
4. Establish Police patrols for the slug park and ride lots.
5. Provide downstream nodes for slugs. Slugs may have to switch rides once or twice for shortest trip. Emulate packet switching
6. Improve slug pick up points in DC, Crystal City, Alexandria and Skyline.
7. Allow slug parking in VRE and METRO lots.
8. Market the drive alones in the regular lanes on the advantages of slugging.
9. Ramp meter the regular lanes with queue jumpers for HOV vehicles.
10. Target 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour in the regular lanes instead of 2,400 vplph. Combine ramp metering and easier passenger pick up to get the car count reduced.
11. Stop promoting METRO, VRE and public buses. Money pits. Use the money to PAY slugs to ride.
12. Pay companies and hotels that have vans to shuttle commuters to better pick up points.
13. Review land use plans where allowance was made in floor area ratios for reduced parking. Build more parking for slugs. Space to be rented by VDOT, County or City.
14. Advise certain politicians from California to put a sock in it. Not to mention any names but Dan Issa comes to mind.
15. Air reruns of Sesame Street in which Big Bird talks about bigger than. Have elected officials view the show, write a 500 work essay and explain to their constituents how the show applies to commuting.
16. Repeat the TV viewing exercise using some common facts. Twenty-four hours in a day. Why waste it sitting in traffic? Acceleration kills fuel efficiency. Why operate roads in stop-go (mostly stopped) mode?
17. Complete the service roads that parallel Little River Turnpike between the City of Fairfax and Shirley Highway. Encourage slug parking on the service roads.
18. Nullify anti-jitney laws.
Oh, did I mention more park and ride lots? Did I mention reviewing land use plans vis-a-vis required parking? Did I mention more parking on service roads?
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 10:12am
Can someone please put a sock in NoSUV's mouth?
Must we constantly waste our time and energy answering the misinformed assertions of bow-tie wearing Republican hypocrites spouting their discredited free-market 'philosophy' that the Almighty Market will solve all our problems?
For one thing, if you open the HOV to anyone willing to spend money to access it, it will clog IMMEDIATELY because you cannot set a toll cost high enough to prevent me, and others like me, from paying it to get to work on time. I will pay any amount up to $50 each way to make sure I get to work on time. And there are thousands more in the 95 corridor who will do the same. The 'Market' won't adjust behavior until it becomes exorbitantly expensive.
So set a toll and watch the jam. Who will suffer the most from Toll Roads? The less-affluent who can't afford $15 or $20 to get to work. They will just have to lump it in the regular lanes. But you fat cat free marketers don't give a F about them, do you?
Take your drivel elsewhere.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 12:02pm
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SpongeBob: you're talking in circles - and you agreed with me! You said so yourself that if you raise the toll high enough, market forces will achieve the balance. How high is high enough? Good question - you seem to think with no analysis that it's above $50. At 10 trips per week that's about $25K/year. My goodness you make a lot of money!
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 2:25pm
From http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=12348&TOPIC_ID=1920&FORUM_ID=11
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]The problem remains on how to reduce the OVERALL congestion. HOV lanes generally have excess capacity, especially compared to the regular lanes. A balancing effort is needed. One way is to allow some of the SOVs into the HOVs, which is what the hybrid exemption does quite nicely. Another way is through the use of tolls, which would allow market forces to achieve the balance by raising/lowering the toll until the desired balance is achieved. Toll could be graduated based on occupancy: $4 base fare, reduced by $2 for each additional passenger. Could make "CF" plates count as an additional person. HOV-3 still ride for free; SOV hybrids pay $2; regular SOVs pay $4. If HOV lanes are too crowded, double the toll. If balance too far the other way, cut the toll in half. Everyone wins.
A better way to achieve free flow would be to convert more of the drive alones to slugging.
What stands in the way of conversion? In my opinion, two things.
1. Parking. Slugging does not work without adequate parking. While the powers that be contemplate their navels determining how to enforce HOV, they miss the more important task of providing more and better parking.
2. Publicity. The message I'm hearing from the elected representatives in northern Virginia is that there is no need to provide parking. Instead, the message I hear is just let people buy low emission vehicles to solve the clean air problem. I do not hear or see a concerted effort to get more slugs.
I also hear a message that slugs should be crushed. Or is that just wishful thinking on the part of one of the supervisors that is getting tired of torturing commuters and pulling the legs off of butterflies? Another message I hear is "slugs, go away, we need that land for more development." [:-(]
If there is discussion of alternative operation, the concentration should be on obtaining free flow on ALL lanes of Shirley Highway. Getting a few Clean Fuel vehicles into the reversible lanes is counterproductive. Allowing single occupant vehicles sends the message that there is more than enough capacity.
Allowing SOVs of any stripe sends the message that no effort is needed to get more passengers.
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: Mr. Bill
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2005 at 1:47pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]SpongeBob: you're talking in circles - and you agreed with me! You said so yourself that if you raise the toll high enough, market forces will achieve the balance. How high is high enough? Good question - you seem to think with no analysis that it's above $50. At 10 trips per week that's about $25K/year. My goodness you make a lot of money!
Maybe at $50 each way more people will want to slug because by paying $0 they are saving $100 a day [:o)]
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2005 at 3:06pm
There won't be any slugging because, as both Clark and Fluor admit, they have no mechanism for free or even reduced use of the Toll Roads by HOV's.
In other words, everyone will pay, no more vanpools, no more carpools, no more slugging.
That's the market for you. Fair to the well-off.
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Posted By: Mr. Bill
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2005 at 4:30pm
quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
There won't be any slugging because, as both Clark and Fluor admit, they have no mechanism for free or even reduced use of the Toll Roads by HOV's.
In other words, everyone will pay, no more vanpools, no more carpools, no more slugging.
That's the market for you. Fair to the well-off.
No that is a misrepresentation of their position. That is not the way it was presented at WSHS, there will be a way for HOV to enter--the problem may be if you have a HOT tag you may still get charged. Fluor said that they will need to watch those enterances lane because that will have violators.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2005 at 7:31pm
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Anyone who thinks HOV will remain free under HOT is naive, in my opinion. There are no guarantees, and in CA they proved exactly what will happen - everyone will eventually pay.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 8:51am
Mr. Bill, Bob is right: there is NO METHOD available, now or in the future, to allow highway "managers" to gauge the number of bodies in a vehicle and allow an HOV-3 into the toll road for free.
We've been over this ground a thousand times educating and re-educating newbies on the problems with the toll road proposals from Clark and Fluor. What we need is a FAQ on this site that addresses the basics of the differences between HOV and toll roads.
BTW, it is no misrepresentation. Have you read the Fluor proposal? I have, and it clearly states:
"All vehicles using the BRT/HOT Lanes would
be required to have a Smart Tag/E-ZPass account.
Tolling will be based on the vehicle classification
below:
• SOV/HOV (2) – Variable Rate Toll
• HOV (3+) – Free
• Buses – Free
• Emergency Vehicles – Free"
BUT, it then goes on to say:
"HOV (3+) users will be required to open an account and use a tag in the same way as customers who pay
the tolls similar to the SR-91 system. In the case of the HOV customers, their tag will be identified within
the system as an HOV user when they enter through the HOV lane and the transaction will be identified
as non-revenue. In addition to providing the only practical way to accommodate free usage for HOVs, this
will increase the number of holders of transponders which will benefit all projects with Smart Tag
capability."
Now, please tell me how a Smart Tag reader can tell how many people are in the car? It can't! And what about times when you are driving solo? Do you need to have a non-HOV Smart Tag, too?
Look, this whole unsolicited proposal from Fluor is a boondoggle. The proposed solutions are so drastic, and the permanent changes to our highway system so risky, it would take a fool (or someone with some money at stake,) to think Toll Roads are a good idea.
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Posted By: beachhead
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 4:01pm
Spongy,
There is no doubt you are correct. The whole idea of Smart Tags is nonsense. Are the tags going to use some kind of heat sensor or forward-looking infra-red radar to count the number of people in the car with the tag and transmit that to the receivers at the entrances to HOT/HOV? Either they put toll boths at the entrances with live toll-takers who can wave through HOV-3 cars or charge partial tolls for HOV-2, or they set up an automated system that will just charge everybody the same. Guess which option your political representatives will choose. Would it be the one supported by commercial interests with a big enough stake in the system's success to funnel campaign contributions in the direction of our elected officials?
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2005 at 9:38am
Following from US Congressman Tom Davis:
Thank you for contacting me regarding hybrid vehicles on the high occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes. I appreciate hearing from you on this issue and I apologize for the delay in my response.
As you may be aware, the Virginia Department of Transportation released an HOV Task Force Report in January which addresses this issue. Virginia Code 46.2-749.3 authorizes the issuance of clean special fuel license plates to qualifying vehicles. Vehicles registered with these plates are exempt from the HOV occupancy requirements until July 1, 2006. The report states that although
they are legally exempt, these clean fuel vehicles add to the low occupancy traffic volume in HOV lanes and are a major contributor to the eroding performance of the HOV lanes on I-95. Recent traffic counts indicate that clean special fuel vehicles, most of which are hybrid vehicles, comprise up to 19% of the volumes on the I-95 HOV lanes in the morning HOV restricted period. Several recommendations are offered in the report, including ending the exemption for hybrids before its scheduled expiration July 1, 2006, requiring them to carry at least one passenger, restricting their use to certain times or capping their use at its current level.
At the federal level, I have supported measures to give states leeway to allow hybrids an HOV exemption. That said, I believe states should closely monitor the situation so that HOV lanes are not rendered useless due to an over abundance of single-occupant hybrids. Ultimately, this is a decision state leaders must make.
Again, thank you for contacting me. Please feel free to contact me again in the future on matters of importance to you.
Sincerely,
Tom Davis
Member of Congress
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Posted By: Max_28756
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2005 at 11:05am
Wow! That was typical political double speak. He answered without an answer. I do see he supports the HOV turning into the Hybrid Only Vehicles (HOV) lanes. As more and more manufacturers produce hybrids, we will see the HOV turning into lanes 4 and 5 of I95. They won't need the HOT lane issue since the HOV will be clogged with hybrids. Pay a little more for a vehicle and get access to the HOV. Pay now or pay later.
On a side note: Explain to me once again how a vehicle running with regular gasoline qualifies as clean fuel.
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