cheaters vs. hybrids
Printed From: Slug-Lines.com
Category: Archived Slugging Topics
Forum Name: Hybrids
Forum Description: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1260
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 11:20am
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Topic: cheaters vs. hybrids
Posted By: boat-drink
Subject: cheaters vs. hybrids
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 5:54am
As a long time slug-driver, it has become impossible NOT to notice the growing number of hybrids in the HOV lanes....especially over the last 12-18 months.
Here's a question...possibly even an unscientific poll:
Which annoys you more? Cheaters or hybrids with only the driver in it.
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Replies:
Posted By: Geezehead
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 7:31am
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Hybrids - by far - they are 'legal' cheaters. Put three in those matchboxes!
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Posted By: kgirl
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 8:43am
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hmmm. Cheaters I say. How hard would it really be to jump off and pick up a couple of riders? I guess that goes both ways, but at least the Hybrids have that whole fuel efficiency thing going for them and I tend to have a soft side for efforts to minimize pollution. Plus, I think the free roaming of the HOV by Hybrids with one person will likely end soon. If all the cars are hybrids there is no point in having all the perks. Plus, if you put 3 people in a hybrid, whats the maximum speed, 30?? :)
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Posted By: CUCV_Owner
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 9:05am
Cheaters are more annoying. Hybrid owners are obeying the law. If the rest of us don't like the law, it is up to us to contact our elected officials in Richmond and get it changed.
--
Politicians should serve two terms... a term in office followed by a term in jail.
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Posted By: tri2dc
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 9:10am
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Cheaters, but a close second is Hybrids
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Posted By: Stuck2
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 9:16am
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Not worth the time getting annoyed. What I don't like is aggressive drivers (who are probably the annoyed ones). I just think traffic stinks and is getting worse by the day. Don't see any ultimate solution to the mess.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 10:00am
Cheaters, definitely.
The hybrids are smug and we're never ever going to get rid of them, but at least they're following the rules. And Following the Rules is the core of being a good slugger.
It's the HOT advocates who really get my goat.
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Posted By: pplmvrs
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 10:11am
Posted By: ExecSec
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 2:15pm
Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 3:31pm
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And then there was the guy who bought his hybrid so that he could avoid Horner Rd, smoke his cigar, drink his coffee, listen to Howard Stern, talk loudly about personal things on his cell phone while driving aggressively alone at 45 mph in the HOV lanes so that he wouldn't have slugs write about him on the "DO NOT RIDE WITH LIST" on this message board. [:D][:D][:D]
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 3:42pm
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... and I forgot to mention the guy is a law enforcement officer who stops at WaWa and keeps the temperature in his car at 90 degrees! [8D][;)]
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Posted By: dkerley
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 4:36pm
I doubt that that the hybrid drivers are going to be allowed in the HOV lanes without three riders much longer -- I give it another year or so.
Have you all noticed how bad traffic is getting in the HOV's? What in the heck is going on?
The only thing that really annoys me is that hybrids go WAY below the speed limit - like the battery in their car is running low or something.[;)]
Dina
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Posted By: dctigger
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2004 at 9:50pm
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Hybrids!!!!! You would think that people who buy cars for clean air reasons would believe in ride sharing.
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Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2004 at 7:21am
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Cheaters - they don't have an exemption...yet.
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Posted By: ScarletLSG
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2004 at 9:11am
Dina,
Not all of us Hybrid drivers cruise WAY below the speed limit. I submit as evidence my 82 mph speeding ticket that also got me a reckless driving citation in the HOVs. I am NOW a reformed driver and maintain 65-70. Some of these Hybrid cars can FLY!
ScarletLSG
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Posted By: tri2dc
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2004 at 9:12am
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Hybrid owners buy the car for the HOV exemption not clean air reasons. Most Hybrid owners are self serving introverts. Or at least that is why I bought mine :)
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Posted By: kgirl
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2004 at 9:50am
Regardless of why a Hybrid buyer bought the hybrid, they are still obeying the law while driving in the HOV, and whether they wanted to or not reducing pollution.
Cheaters are just plain cheating and not helping anyone.
and off topic...aren't government holidays great! no back up at the pentagon exit today!! [8D]
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Posted By: manalangd
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2004 at 3:28pm
That's it. My next car is a hybrid.
David
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2004 at 12:20am
Hybrids are a far greater risk to the slugging system, and carpooling in general.
They also have to cheat the law to get the clean fuel plates, since they do not meet the requirment as the law is written. It's just how it's been adopted after enough hybrid drivers complained about getting tickets after buying their supposedly clean car.
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Posted By: Wagonman
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2004 at 4:54pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]Hybrids are a far greater risk to the slugging system, and carpooling in general.
They also have to cheat the law to get the clean fuel plates, since they do not meet the requirment as the law is written. It's just how it's been adopted after enough hybrid drivers complained about getting tickets after buying their supposedly clean car.
I tried to get DMV to explain how hybrids qualify under the state law. They conveniently stop responding to me. It would be nice to get them to follow the law, state and federal. I suppose someone would need to sue but who has the time for that? Any lawyer here looking to do some pro bono for an environmental cause? It is very sad when we give clean fuel plates to cars that aren't cleaner than a lot of other cars. Honda should be exposed and publicly ridiculed for selling a dirty version of their hybrids here. DMV should be ridiculed for ignoring the law and the actual emissions of the hybrids and giving Honda a bonus for selling the dirtier version of their hybrids here. A regular Honda accord or Toyota Camry is much cleaner than the hybrid civic sold here. But once again, government and common sense don't mix.
We should all write our reps. and tell them to write the law to reward actual emissions and not technology fads. They should also make the law perfectly clear so the DMV can't get creative with interpretations.
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Posted By: vick
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2004 at 2:52pm
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I have been driving a hybrid for about 3 months now and have picked up slugs every day. I do this for two reasons: 1) according to VA DMV website you need the clean fuel tags on hybrids in order to be in the HOV lanes (I haven't bothered getting CF tags because I don't need them) and 2) I'm a firm believer in HOV-3 enforcement. I would have loved to see the hybrid pulled over. Hopefully they got a ticket and won't be able to get out of it once they go to court.
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Posted By: mirangus
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 1:10pm
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Uhhhhh, cheaters most definitely. They're just blatant scofflaw jerks. I've learned to deal with the hybrids and am comforted by the fact that the exemption cut-off date is rapidly approaching. BTW-Vick, thanks...you are doing a great thing...
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Posted By: adjguy
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2004 at 10:53am
NEITHER! I am against Whiners more than either of them. Only in Northern Virginia do we get this nonsense. We are sounding more and more like the West Coast everyday. Give up on the Hybrid debate, its GETTING OLD, and isnt very constructive. Lets focus on things that we can actually do something about.
2006 will be here soon, so just call a whaaaaaaaaaahmbulance until then when all of your panties are in a knot....Goodness.
I will mention though, that it is great to see the state patrol out there enforceing the law. Makes me feel good to be a slugger, and CONTRIBUTING to the cause.
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Posted By: 610toCrystalCity
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2004 at 1:46pm
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Cheater....definately cheaters. Because they slow us all down. Then when they get stopped they slow us down even more because people see flashing blue lights and decide to go 25 mph not the normal 65 (I can see slowing to maybe 55 when you are passing them, but there is no need to go 25). While I am on the subject why is it that when there is a cop sitting just past rt 1 in woodbridge on the left hand side of the road we have to slow down to 25mph! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
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Posted By: adjguy
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2004 at 9:37pm
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Its called the Northern Virginian Complex disorder. Symptoms of this include, but are not limited to: rubber necking, driving in the left lane below the speed limit, not using turn signals signals, taking up two parking spots with bohemeth vehicles, too many john kerry/george bush bumper stickers, trying to make a left hand turn to from one side of route one to the other while crossing the distinct double yellow line during rush hour without a traffic signal, tailgating, finger flipping, horn honking, playing music sooo loud that you can hear it in Orange County, racing the rice rocket souped up honda civics that make more noise than speed, going to the WaWa gas station and filling up your car and leaving your car at the pump while you go and get coffee and other items creating a line 6 cars deep, and not caring one bit, using your credit card to make a purchase of $0.89 to find out your credit card bounces higher than the highest point of the Sears Tower in Chicago.... just to name a few. Any questions?[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2004 at 9:55am
Yesterday morning I ended up driving myself for some reason. While in traffice I counted the cars that passed me in the HOV lanes for a few minutes between Lorton and Springfield (0815-0830)... 39 Hybrids, 84 HOV-compliant vehicles, 4 unmarked police going to DC or wherever, and about 7 motorcycles. Didn't see a single obvious cheater, though some of the 84 may have been cheaters.
I just did a little spreadsheet based on these numbers. I assigned 3 people to each "HOV compliant"(a little conservative), 1.2 to the hybrids(being generous), and 1 to the others.
Hybrids take 29% of the road, moving 15% of the people.
HOV take up 47% of the road, moving 81% of the people.
Police and motorcycles were 8% and 3.5%
There were only a few busses, but if I had accounted for them it would have signifigantly lowered the % of people moved by hybrids.
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Posted By: pplmvrs
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2004 at 12:56pm
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I really don't think that Hybrids are to blame for all of the congestion, but they do seem to get blamed. I always thought it had something to do with the population growth.
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Posted By: Brake4Slugs
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2004 at 9:14am
According to the above numbers, hybrids are taking up a big chunk of the road, while not proving the same rider benefit. Let's just all agree that there are MANY reasons why the HOV lanes are becoming more congested.
I just wish that people could stop TAILGATING! [B)] Traffic would flow better if we all left a little more space between our cars. It allows for lane changes and merges. It would also probably cut down on the number of stupid fender-benders. I try to leave at least 3-4 car lengths between my car and the one ahead. Call me silly, but it keeps me and my riders safer and it helps with the traffic flow. Is there a tailgater out there who has not heard about the recent crash on 66, where a pick-up truck rear-ended a car and killed a toddler and an unborn child? The mother tried unsuccessfully to save her child from the burning back seat. Just think about that the next time you feel the need to drive so close to my bumper you can read the brand name of my infant car seat. [:(!]
Thanks for letting me vent. I feel better now.[^]
Brake for Slugs
~I'd enjoy the day more, if it started later~
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Posted By: DC_Slugger
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 9:02am
Has anyone ever done the gas mileage math on a hybrid. They allow them in the HOV lanes because they are "Clean Fuel" vehicles. Last time I checked they are using the same "dirty fuel" as every other vehicle.
Anyway, a hybrid averages about 45-49mpg (brand new) when going 55mph and over. Riding by themselves.
My vehicle gets about 20 mpg anytime, but I have two other people in the car. So I am getting about 60 mpg (if you multiply by the people).
If that hybrid had two other people in the car they would be getting 135 mpg...that, honestly, would be excellent!
Anyway, all I am saying is that my "dirty fuel" vehicle is doing more for the air than that of a "clean fuel" vehicle when they are only riding with one person in the car.
I don't think that it's fair for them to ride in the hov by themselves and/or get a tax break for that car. Not everyone can afford to buy one and it is certainly not doing anything for traffic congestion or air quality. It's a waste all around.
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Posted By: tdar20
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 12:18pm
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Old arguement same answer.......2006, until then its here.
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Posted By: HOVer
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 1:58pm
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The number of hybrids has ballooned this year. I think a lot of recent arrivals to the area are buying them for use on HOV, thinking that they can get more house for their $ in PWC, etc., and not have a significant increase in their commuting time if they buy a hybrid. They are enjoying gas savings of course, and the tax break. On the other hand, maybe a lot of those hybrid buyers are kicking themselves because, with the increase in volume in HOV, on a typical day lately, nobody's doing THAT much better than the folks in the regular lanes! I get there just as quickly in my cheap 95 Corolla with 2 slugs as the expensive creepy looking hybrid! Lately my HOV commute has been averaging between 45 minutes and an hour most days. Ugh. I fear the days of 25 minute commutes from Lake Ridge to 14th & NY are OVER for all of us. This being the case, how do they expect to get people to PAY for this kind of commute when they turn them HOV to HOT lanes? "Took me an hour and a half to get to work today, and I got to pay $5 for the pleasure!" Yeah, right. BTW, I almost never see cheaters after 6:30AM or before 5:30PM. Can't be them clogging up the works!
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Posted By: adjguy
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 11:07pm
Can we give up on the hybrid debate. Its getting old. Lets move on.
2006 is getting near.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2004 at 8:17am
Getting old? What does that mean? July 2006 is still 20 months away, and there's no indication yet that the hybrids will lose their exemption. It got extended last time, didn't it?
As hybrids have dramatically increased, so has the average commute time. This morning's commute is a good example. Even though it was very light compared to the recent normal, it was still about 5 minutes slower than my average time from two years ago.
quote:
Originally posted by adjguy
[br]Can we give up on the hybrid debate. Its getting old. Lets move on.
2006 is getting near.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2004 at 9:46am
If you live in my neck of the woods, your congressional rep is Jo Ann Davis. (Who?) What kind of commute do you think she has? What kind of car does she own? Hmmm, consider this, from her website:
11/19/03
Davis Supports Measure to Protect HOV Exemption for Hybrid Vehicles
Local lawmaker works with DOT to help preserve exemption
Congresswoman Jo Ann Davis today supported comprehensive energy legislation which, among other things, includes legislative language providing states the authority to pass laws to allow hybrid vehicles into HOV lanes without any passengers. Although Virginia currently allows hybrids into the HOV lanes, the Department of Transportation recently notified VDOT that this law conflicted with federal law, which did not allow the exemption, stating that unless the federal law was changed, Virginia would have to comply with federal regulations and change current state law.
In a letter to the Department of Transportation, Davis asked that DOT wait until Congress had the opportunity to address this issue in either Transportation Re-authorization or Energy legislation. DOT complied, and the passage of HR 6 now protects this provision.
"In an effort to alleviate our growing traffic problem and continue efforts to protect our environment, the hybrid exemption in HOV lanes is necessary, and I am pleased that this legislation protects this exemption," said Congresswoman Jo Ann Davis, who petitioned the Department of Transportation to give Congress a chance to address this issue before it mandated Virginia to change its current law. "This exemption encourages clean air vehicles and helps alleviate traffic. These vehicles accomplish exactly what the HOV lanes look to accomplish, which is to cut down on air pollution and help alleviate traffic gridlock."
"Folks in Virginia, specifically in the Fredericksburg region, purchased these hybrid vehicles with the intention of using the HOV lanes and protecting the environment," said Davis. "It is not fair to change the policy mid-stream on these people, and this legislation will allow the Virginia exemption to remain," added Davis.
Too bad she's got no one running against her today.
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Posted By: NoNo
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2004 at 11:05am
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Actually, she had an Independent Party candidate running against her today.
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Posted By: Geezehead
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2004 at 7:52am
"In an effort to alleviate our growing traffic problem and continue efforts to protect our environment, the hybrid exemption in HOV lanes is necessary, and I am pleased that this legislation protects this exemption," said Congresswoman Jo Ann Davis, who petitioned the Department of Transportation to give Congress a chance to address this issue before it mandated Virginia to change its current law. "This exemption encourages clean air vehicles and helps alleviate traffic. These vehicles accomplish exactly what the HOV lanes look to accomplish, which is to cut down on air pollution and help alleviate traffic gridlock."
Folks - I had to write myself in yesterday against Ms. Davis due to the ridiculous beliefs she has with regards to one-person hybrids, the environment, and traffic in general. Just way out of touch. It is unfortunate, I have been on her side in the past, but I can't let this go, especially after crawling at 30 MPH this morning with 6 one-person hybrids around me the entire time............
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Posted By: Stuck2
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2004 at 10:08am
Given the rapid growth in the South has anyone thought that the ultimate goal is to end HOV in an effort to make all lanes available to everybody? I know there will be foaming at the mouth with that comment, but it was just a thought.
However, I think the ultimate issue is the fact that there are only a few ways to crowd into the city and they are maxed out. So, if this region continues to grow at the rate it is without any thought given to controlling growth and alternative transportation systems (which means higher taxes), the roads are just going to get worse. I think removing the exemptions is only temporary patch.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2004 at 3:39pm
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At least Hybrids don't pollute as much. Near the bottom of the barrel are the "left-lane slow drivers" who create rolling roadblocks. Busses that drive all the way up and then cut into traffic lanes close to the Pentagon exit are down there too. But HOV cheaters are low-life scum! Rent-a-cop cars with the little blue dashboard lights are just cheaters with badges (when there's no emergency). Life, death or national security emergencies aside, there's no excuse for singles in the HOVs.
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Posted By: Wagonman
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2004 at 6:28pm
quote:
Originally posted by raymond
[br]At least Hybrids don't pollute as much.
Not true as mentioned in many other posts.
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Posted By: adjguy
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2004 at 6:57am
You guys are funny. I think you should just keep beating the bybrid debate to death. If your so against the hybrids, than do something about it. Stand at the entrance to each HOV and scream and yell at the hybrid drivers, and maybe you'll change their minds, or get your rear end kicked. Geese, 20 more months of them, and the hybrids will be parking and riding, or picking up slugs. Geese. MOVE ON!
Well said Sponge!
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Posted By: tdar20
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2004 at 7:54am
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Adjguy......I would not bet the farm the Hybrid exemption goes away in 06.
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Posted By: WBSlug7
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2004 at 8:49am
I saw a Hybrid SUV single on the HOV this morning without a Clean Fuel plate. Is that legal? And isn't a SUV-Hybrid sorta oxymoronic?
Forget Horner Rd, use Potomac Mills!
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Posted By: Stuck2
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2004 at 9:31am
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If they are hybrid they'll need the special plate. I've seen a lot of hybrid w/o plates.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2004 at 12:32pm
Hmmm. Let me see.... I think I'd like this deck chair over here, and that one over there.... And... Oh! What was that bump, Mr. Captain of the Titanic?
(Folks, the hybrid extension ends in 2006. Meanwhile, the Fluor Corporation's destruction of the HOV lanes is due to start in 2006.)
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Posted By: adjguy
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2004 at 5:27pm
Posted By: Uhura
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2004 at 6:40pm
quote:
Originally posted by boat-drink
[br]As a long time slug-driver, it has become impossible NOT to notice the growing number of hybrids in the HOV lanes....especially over the last 12-18 months.
Here's a question...possibly even an unscientific poll:
Which annoys you more? Cheaters or hybrids with only the driver in it.
I can be annoyed by both-If someone is driving like an idiot holding everyone else up or creating a dangerous situation, I find them annoying.
Live Long and Prosper
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Posted By: Wagonman
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2004 at 8:50pm
quote:
Originally posted by tdar20
[br]Adjguy......I would not bet the farm the Hybrid exemption goes away in 06.
I agree with this statement. There are already two bills proposed for the Virginia 2005 legislative session that will eliminate the sunset of July 2006(HB 99 and HB 1106). I bet the reps. that wrote these bills own hybrids. I suggest everyone write their reps and tell them to move the date up, not eliminate it! All it takes is a couple of minutes to email them and you will more than make up the time commuting once the hybrids are out.
Bills:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?051+sum+HB1106
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?051+sum+HB99
Contact info:
http://sov.state.va.us/SenatorDB.nsf/$$Viewtemplate+for+WMembershipHome?OpenForm
http://dela.state.va.us/dela/MemBios.nsf/MWebsiteTL?OpenView
District info:
http://dela.state.va.us/dela/MemBios.nsf/MWebsiteHD?OpenView
http://sov.state.va.us/SenatorDB.nsf/$$Viewtemplate%2Bfor%2BWSenateDistricts?OpenForm
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