HOV Times |
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wmcg
New Slug Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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quote:OK, forget about the hybrids even though they are a problem. Lets stick with the idea of expanding HOV hours that will hopefully prevent huge back-ups caused by non-HOV vehicles who got on prior to 0600 and make no attempt to get off. Expanding the HOV hours and asking for increased enforcement will allow car-poolers and slugers to get to work on time. Right now it's getting more difficult every month. With the exception of more enforcement, does anyone have a better idea that would have a more immediate impact on commuting? Lets hear them if there are any. Could the VASP post a car at the entrance to the HOV with it's blue lights flashing? That would have an impact on violators but I fear it would also have a negative impact on revenues for the VASP. wmcg |
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tangelo53
New Slug Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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quote: I also think there are way too many Hybrids/single drivers on HOV. I am all for the environment, but I just don't understand why the Hybrid drivers can't pick up slugs....if they picked up slugs, that would be 2 more cars off the road. That would be awesome, considering there are now probably more Hybrids on HOV than anything else. |
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scoobydoo
New Slug Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Yeah, I've been late for work three times already this month. Once because someone wasn't supposed to be in the HOV lane and got pulled over. Well there goes that morning. The cop is blocking the lane and we had a difficult time getting over so we could go around them.
I wish we had the far right lane, it would make getting on and off alot easier. |
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NoSUV
New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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quote: And STILL the express lanes move far better than the regular lanes! On Thursday 11/10 commute outbound, regular lanes from Pentagon to 495 moving at 5 mph; express lanes ONLY moving at the speed limit. Is it any wonder that there is so much resistance to any change in the hours and so much momentum for HOT? Drivers in the regular lanes need the hours reduced so they can get to/from work - and based on the 11/10 commute, there are far more in those lanes than in the express. |
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N_or_S_bound
New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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NoSUV,
That's probably not a good date to use as an example. Much of that traffic was folks trying to leave for their 3 day weekend, whether to get home to leave on it or already packed up with less than 3 so not HOV-3 qualified. Acquiescing and accommodating the SINGLE-minded person who believes it is some fundamental Constitutional right to travel solo in America isn't going to help the problem. It's time to face that. You know it to be the truth yet continue to deny. I'm not certain your motives. You're obviously an educated person, yet you choose to continue with a one note trumpet that's not making any music (e.g. sense). When moving into concentrated population centers, there are benefits that abound for those who realize there are individual preferences and desires that will have to be sacrificed. A more balanced stance in what you'd like to see happen would probably make it easier to effect change in the minds of people here. I'll admit there are folks on the slug/HOV side of the argument who are just as stuck with their own personal preferences. The benefits of their preferences to the populace as a whole though outweigh what you desire to see become "standard". Now, if these same people who slug/HOV would only get engaged in trying to effect change at all levels (the closest being the most effective), we'd all see the power of the vote in a people. The highway counters will have new stats out shortly speaking to which options carry more people in a balanced sense (IF monetary incentives aren't used to suppress that data). Numbers will tell the tale. Those who could carry more than just themselves in their vehicle or ride in another commuting means and CHOOSE to stay at 5 mph in the mainlanes have the option to HOV. All choices in life have either a benefit or downside. Why try to mask that? (of course, I ask this of you, but I already know your general response. Were you genuinely interested in improvements that would benefit the somewhat sacrificing majority, you'd have adopted reason and at least acknowledged that HOV is better than SOV in ALL cases.). Back to you sir. I'll not engage in further dialogue with you on this matter until you've adopted a more reasonable approach. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care! |
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NoSUV
New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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NoSB: As I've said before, the logical extension of your argument is the elimination of ALL cars from the express lanes. As you say, those who choose to use private transportation are near-SINGLE minded people who believe it is their Constitutional right to travel in less than public transportation in America won't help the problem. As much as I, you also know that is the truth.
Is HOV "better" that SOV? Depends. Something needs to happen for more fuel efficient vehicles with newer technology, and either we must use taxpayer subsidies or provide non-financial incentives. I guess I could sit in the regular lanes if you paid me $6K/year to do so. All of your statements can be used to advocate removing cars from the express lanes: individual sacrifices, changing mindsets, options to carry more people, and best of all, those who carry only themselves and up to 4 people and CHOOSE to stay at 5 mph in the regular lanes have the option to take public transportation. I am tired of slugs trumpeting that the current system is the best. It's not. Might be for them, but not for the majority. |
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AveMaria
New Slug Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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I agree that the BEST solution would be mass transit ONLY. I would give up picking up slugs if the Metro was extended to PWC. I would take the OmniBus IF the fares were cheaper. How I would love to sit back and read a book during my commute.
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dickboyd
New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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quote: Be careful of what you ask for, you just might get it. Cheaper fares in mass transit? As it is, only about 40% of the operating costs and none of the capital costs of transit come out of the fare box. Where does the money come from? Partly from the fuel taxes. Fuel taxes that were once dedicated to roads. Partly from sales taxes, partly from property taxes. You must have a reason, or several reasons for citing mass transit only as the BEST solution. Care to share with the group? Do you really want METRO? If so why? Sit back and read? Have you tried the Itty-Bitty Book Light? or earphones and recorded books? dickboyd@aol.com |
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N_or_S_bound
New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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As Americans we are too prone to look for a "silver bullet" solution to any challenge we face. It usually boils down to an all-or-nothing proposition in our minds since we don't want to give it too much thought (it's like thinking hurts our brains or something).
Yeah, sure, go all mass transit. You've now established a single point of failure in a system just like DB just pointed out. A balanced approach to any system is to build in some redundant capability. The current solution needs tweaking and any REASONABLE person can see that decreasing vehicles should be a high priority to restore the flow rate. Any solution that goes in the opposite direction is downright foolish and unreasonable...except to anyone who has an outright equity in promoting that (faulty) solution. Flow will increase with fewer vehicles in the HOV. Maybe someday the need will be there to eliminate all vehicles that carry less than 15 people. For the time being, the system appears to be able to handle vehicles carrying less than 15. Now comes the part where you need to incentivize people to get out of their single occupant vehicles and into something carrying more than 1. HOV-3 is a reasonable element in this regards. HOV-4 makes even more sense since most vehicles are engineered with seating for at least four. Single occupant vehicles, regardless of the rationale, don't contribute to optimizing the system. They only serve to reduce the overall efficiency for all concerned---except those who are SOV in the HOV. Most see that. Any call for an excessive response to a suboptimized system is unreasonable and unnecessary. Dick makes the case many times elsewhere: recruit a slug. Who have you talked to about becoming a slug? Try it today and see if folks are interested in saving time, money, resources, the environment, and others I've not thought of yet. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care! |
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NoSUV
New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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NoSB: Again, as you point out, the express lanes during commuting hours generally can carry the current load with vehicles with less than HOV-15; in fact, that also includes SOV hybrids. Still looking to your right?
Also, most new technology needs help to become mainstream. Remember the conversion from leaded to unleaded cars? There was little to no incentive to get the more expensive unleaded vehicles, and there were all sorts of people out there trying to figure out how to cheat the system. The conversion succeeded because the goverment made it so. Just as you so clearly see the need to get people to carpool, many of us also see that the nation must covert to hybrid technology - perhaps even with alternate fuel sources - to reduce fuel demand as well as better the environment. Non-hybrid vehicles, regardless of the rationale, don't contribute to optimizing that. Now comes the part where you need to incentivize people to get out of their non-hybrid vehicles and into something more fuel efficient, like hybrids or clean fuel vehicles. Hybrids are reasonable elements in this regard; clean fuel vehicles are even better. All calls for their elimination in the express lanes is unreasonable and unnecessary. Perhaps we should instead be asking - have you recruited a vehicle owner to buy a hybrid today? |
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