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mlrdad 
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 Posted: 20 Jan 2003 at 8:34am |
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Received an reply from my note to Delegate Mcquigg. Shey says in a survey she took 62% of responders were against the idea. She seems a bit luke warm on the issue though so we need to keep those cards, letters and e-mails coming.[^]
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USA
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Posted: 20 Jan 2003 at 10:02am |
quote:To "turn off" the Smart Tag, take it off the windshield and stick it in the glove compartment. E-ZPass provides a "no read bag," but Smart Tag doesn't--after all, in VDOT's mind nobody from Virginia ever leaves the Commonwealth. If they are serious about HOT lanes--and Maryland is rumoured to be considering them as well--VDOT will HAVE to get rid of its stupid Smart Tag system and integrate with the rest of the East Coast on E-ZPass. |
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wdossel
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Posted: 21 Jan 2003 at 6:42am |
quote: Hear, Hear !!! (clap, clap, clap)[:)] - Will |
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Admin
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Posted: 04 Mar 2003 at 6:00am |
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(Recovered postings from corrupt database - admin)
You know, if they want to raise money, why don't they just patrol the HOV lane more. I see single riders on there ALL the time during "peak" hours. It irritates me when I go to the trouble to find someone to ride with me and they're all alone with NO consequence. And they should pull them over for the world to see. Not as they're getting off the exit ramp, but actually on the HOV lanes. This would generate money and free up the HOV lanes some. And I agree on extending the time to 6:30. It's not that hard to find someone to ride with you if you want to avoid traffic. mirangus Average Member 48 Posts Posted - 27 Jan 2003 : 09:33:49 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You know, I've been doing a little thinking about the whole "police patrolling the HOV lanes more" issue, and I gotta be honest and say that I think the police might be on the right track with what they are doing with their enforcement of regulations. If they monitored the HOV lanes, everyday, during restriction times, everybody would know and no one would violate them. However, with the way it works now (cops show up all at once after no presence for a while), seems to catch more people randomly. The cops will be scarce for weeks at a time and then show up and do a violator sting where they all come out and nab violators. This inconsistancy allows for more violators all around an more revenue for VA. There will always be people that think that think it's OK to play if they think the cat is away. The cops aren't going to catch everybody, but they'll catch more in the long run than if they don't make their presence known constantly. Kinda makes you wonder what the real goal is. To enforce HOV restrictions, making it fair for those who take the time to find other passengers, or lure violators in with their lack of presence so they can nab more in the long run? Don't scratch your head too hard on that one... What I really wonder is this... Why do cops pull somebody over to write an $80.00 speeding ticket when they could pull someone over and write them a $200.00 HOV violation ticket. Never understood that one. But I'm a little biased on THAT issue. nina Starting Member 1 Posts Posted - 27 Jan 2003 : 15:02:39 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think converting the HOV lanes to HOT lanes is a great idea - they just need to set the toll high enough that no one will use it as a commuter lane. Say, $15 each way, same price, any entrance. That way, if someone has a GENUINE need to use the lane, say a 9 am flight out of Dulles, they can pony up their 15 bucks, get their big red "I am not a cheater" windshield sticker at the toll booth (which they will give back at the outgoing booth), and head on down. I don't think many people will want to spend an extra $150 a week on commuting costs (plus gas & parking). If they do, raise the toll to $20 or $25. jstancil New Member 10 Posts Posted - 27 Jan 2003 : 15:28:19 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by nina [br]I think converting the HOV lanes to HOT lanes is a great idea - they just need to set the toll high enough that no one will use it as a commuter lane. Say, $15 each way, same price, any entrance. That way, if someone has a GENUINE need to use the lane, say a 9 am flight out of Dulles, they can pony up their 15 bucks, get their big red "I am not a cheater" windshield sticker at the toll booth (which they will give back at the outgoing booth), and head on down. I don't think many people will want to spend an extra $150 a week on commuting costs (plus gas & parking). If they do, raise the toll to $20 or $25. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why pay a high toll when there's OmniLink, VRE, MARC, etc? Why not use these options rather than employing a STUPID study to allow non-HOV vehicles in the HOV lanes by paying a heavy toll? If the gov't would subsidize these transportation options, they could lower their fares and attract more riders. Most of the options mentioned even stop at central metro stops where buses are prevalent. gg Senior Member Member 55 Posts Posted - 27 Jan 2003 : 16:09:02 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mirangus, Regarding your question as to why an $80 speeding ticket vs. $200 HOV fine, the first offense for HOV is only $50, second $100, third $250, and fourth $500. Also tack on another $47 for processing fees. So, speeding fines can bring in more revenue. However, "tbey" say speeding endangers the safety of others, but IMHO speeding with the flow of traffic, that is, not cutting in and out of traffic, is fine. gg gg Senior Member Member 55 Posts Posted - 27 Jan 2003 : 16:25:21 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nina, I like your idea but only if the toll charges are dynamically set by the given traffic conditions. For example, if traffic starts off light, then the charge should be nominal, but as traffic builds in the HOV lanes, the charges should increase in proportion. One problem with this idea is how to correctly monitor the actual volume of traffic. Additionally, the system must ensure that it charges enough to keep the demand at bay in order to minimize congestion. Come to think of it, aren't the HOV lanes already congested? gg MDC Junior Member 19 Posts Posted - 27 Jan 2003 : 19:25:10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If they use the transponder system as suggested, how does anyone suppose they'd enforce it? The only thing I can think of is to have police at the exits with the equipment necessary to detect it, otherwise it's impossible. Yes, the HOV lanes are already congested, the only thing more cars will do is slow everyone down. That's why I'm concerned about the CF exemption. I agree whole heartedly, this idea STINKS!!! If there were more patrols on the HOV to catch the violators they would have more than enough funds to cover whatever it is they need funding for. It appears this is just a way to not do thier jobs (traffic cops). I think we should go to HOV-4 and inforce the rule of occupancy. Tell me where do I go to submit my opposition to this. Hopefully they (those in charge) don't just pass this without public input. gg Senior Member Member 55 Posts Posted - 29 Jan 2003 : 09:42:13 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gullahgirld2, Even if you caught all HOV violators, VDOT will always need more revenue. So the HOT idea is a way to gain revenue and OPTIMIZE traffic throughput for everyone. Same thing with allowing Clean Fuel (CF) vehicles into the HOV lanes, it is a way to get more cars into the HOV lanes because the HOV lanes are not yet saturated and so they think it is not being used optimally. It appears that the HOV lanes are marginal at being express lanes where congestion appears to be growing. So, HOT will eventually clog the HOV lanes unless they can regulate how many HOT cars enter the HOV lanes. gg viper Junior Member 15 Posts Posted - 29 Jan 2003 : 14:25:09 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by gg [br]gullahgirld2, Even if you caught all HOV violators, VDOT will always need more revenue. So the HOT idea is a way to gain revenue and OPTIMIZE traffic throughput for everyone. Same thing with allowing Clean Fuel (CF) vehicles into the HOV lanes, it is a way to get more cars into the HOV lanes because the HOV lanes are not yet saturated and so they think it is not being used optimally. It appears that the HOV lanes are marginal at being express lanes where congestion appears to be growing. So, HOT will eventually clog the HOV lanes unless they can regulate how many HOT cars enter the HOV lanes. WHAT???!!! gg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arbo Advanced Member 103 Posts Posted - 30 Jan 2003 : 12:16:18 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gg - your logic doesn't hold water. Moving individual cars from the 3-5 lane mainlines to the 2 lane HOV will just make things WORSE for everyone. All you have to do is be on I95/395 coridor at 5:45am. When I was coming in at that time, ALL the lanes were clogged (main and HOV). the HOV wouldn't open up until about 6:15-6:30am, with the mainlines seeming no worse/better at that time. They need to CUT DOWN on the number of vehicles period. CF cars do just the opposite. Also, cutting down on the number of cars on the road lessens the wear and tear on the roads, meaning the roads should require less maintenance. The only way to do that is to entice people to car pool or take public transit (trains, buses, etc). So slugging not only lets me get to/from work faster, it also helps oethers do the same and possibly save money on taxes. mlrdad Junior Member 13 Posts Posted - 31 Jan 2003 : 12:12:13 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I have received a reply on the issue from the governors office. It reads in part: "....The concept behind value pricing is to allow persons to pay a toll to use the HOV lanes rather than meet the occupancy requirement. While it has not been tested in Virginia, this concept has proven beneficial in other areas of the country. In addition to reducing travel times for those individuals willing to pay the toll, value pricing relieves congestion in the conventional lanes as well, benefiting those who choose not to pay the toll. The impact of HOT lanes on the slugging community will be considered as part of any study...." Some benefit!!! The HOV lanes will become congested (just check prior to 6 AM), more cars will be going to DC (have fun finding parking)and of course the mutual benefit to drivers and riders of slugging will be diminished. Looks to me like we have got to keep those letters and cards going to the state. Interestingly, I have not received a reply from any of my federal elected representatives. gg Senior Member Member 55 Posts Posted - 03 Feb 2003 : 16:58:09 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arbo/Viper, I slug and absolutely agree that HOT and CF cars will worsen things for everyone. But from the perspective of VDOT, they really only care about how much volume of cars they can push through the 95/395 corridor. For example, when there is a bad accident in the regular main lanes, VDOT lifts HOV restrictions and then traffic is bad for everyone. Or how about bad snow days, HOV is lifted and everyone suffers. On an average day, during the mean hours of HOV (i.e. not 15 minutes before HOV is lifted) you have to admit that in "general" the HOV lanes are less congested than the regular lanes. I've written to VDOT before and their main concern (in conjunction with the State Police and Incident Commander) is to move people and goods safely and efficiently. I believe that the HOV lanes are a benefit to those that car pool and should not be tampered with! gg speckd Starting Member 4 Posts Posted - 19 Feb 2003 : 11:40:52 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes but for those of us where no slug lines are setup - aka - dulles toll road - hot lanes become a good idea. I cannot HOV unless I find one other person to share my car (which I have tried, again and again to find and have not been lucky) from Ashburn to Crystal City. So I can see why you all would not be happy but I for one think it will benefit my commute. Arbo Advanced Member 103 Posts Posted - 19 Feb 2003 : 13:55:31 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- speckd - are there any slug lines out that way? Would you consider taking someone to the Pentagon or somewhere else close to CC so you could use the HOV? I see that often down at 610 where drivers to CC will pick up slugs for the Pentagon or vice versa. Maylo New Member 9 Posts Posted - 20 Feb 2003 : 16:38:22 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree! Back when HOV first began (you had to have four people in the car), the whole idea behind having such lanes was to PROMOTE carpooling and lower the number of cars on the road. It seems like every time you turned around over the years, decisions were made to benefit the single driver and not to promote carpooling. It would be laughable if we were living in a sitcom. Decisions such as this HOT hairbrained idea, the hybrid vehicles that ARE burning gas at highway speeds, shortening the HOV evening hours from 6:30pm to 6:00pm years ago (Washington Post article said that this was due to pressure of SINGLE drivers on their local politicians), opening up the section going south starting at Edsall Road for the Springfield folks so they wouldn't be caught in the beltway mess (this has been in effect for years and not just before the Springfield Interchange Construction. I read in the paper at the time that once again, a high volume of SINGLE drivers complained and so the local politicians got this part open for them.) People tend to forget this stuff or have moved here since all of this has happened. HOW COULD ANY OF THESE DECISIONS POSSIBLY PROMOTE CARPOOLING? ANSWER: THEY DO NOT. PUTTING PRESSURE ON YOUR POLITICIANS IN LARGE VOLUMES GETS RESULTS NO MATTER WHAT YOUR ISSUE IS, EVEN IF IT IS CONTRARY TO THE STATE'S INITIAL INTENT TO GET MORE CARS OFF THE ROAD. These ill-thought out decisions only serve to benefit the single drivers and bring more of the former carpoolers into the single driver mix because they are not inconvenienced. With each decision, you can't blame the ex-carpoolers, because their incentive to carpool diminishes with each knuckle-headed decision. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by speckd [br]Yes but for those of us where no slug lines are setup - aka - dulles toll road - hot lanes become a good idea. I cannot HOV unless I find one other person to share my car (which I have tried, again and again to find and have not been lucky) from Ashburn to Crystal City. So I can see why you all would not be happy but I for one think it will benefit my commute. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maylo New Member 9 Posts Posted - 20 Feb 2003 : 16:42:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, copied the wrong quote for response. I meant for the above message to be in agreement w/gg and those that don't agree with this new proposal. gg Senior Member Member 55 Posts Posted - 21 Feb 2003 : 11:57:09 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maylo, You make some very good points, thanks for making us aware of what happened in the past. Here's another one, do you remember when there was the HOV-2 study? Well that costly study proved worthless. If I recall, the Governor noticed that the HOV-3 lanes weren't fully utilized and so initiated the study. Any sensible person could have just observed the volume of traffic in the HOV lanes and report back that HOV-2 would clog things up. The HOV lanes seem like something that politicians can justify manipulating, like taxes, and screw things up. gg aalso New Member 5 Posts Posted - 21 Feb 2003 : 12:38:02 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gg-- I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "any sensible person" - apparently there aren't any in these decision-making processes. I'm all for bombarding our politicians with STRONG complaint letters and I will certainly do so. Arbo Advanced Member 103 Posts Posted - 21 Feb 2003 : 13:36:59 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speaking of getting cars off the road, here's an interesting article about how they're solving the terrible congestion problem in London and elsewhere in Europe (http://www.msnbc.com/news/874804.asp?0cl=c1). Maybe VA and MD should make ALL the Interstates going "inside the beltway" into toll roads (say $10 for those cars with less than 3 people in them) and use the resulting $$ to improve mass transit. gg Senior Member Member 55 Posts Posted - 21 Feb 2003 : 14:14:25 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- aalso, I did write to a bunch of people (politicians if you insist) that might possibly care about the issues concerning HOT. I received only one reply from a Mr. Pierce Homer, Deputy Secretary of Transportation for VDOT who was appointed by Governor Warner. Mr. Homer thanked me for my comments and assured me that my concerns would be "built into" all and every study of HOT lanes. aalso, I also agree with you that if politicians are bombarded with letters, they will be influenced and I'm glad to see that you intend to do so. Unfortunately, I think we're outnumbered by single drivers. Nevertheless, I intend to keep up with my efforts. gg gg Senior Member Member 55 Posts Posted - 21 Feb 2003 : 14:26:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arbo, I see your point, but for me, $10 is worth the time to use the HOV/HOT lanes. Say if you increased it to $20 so that there are few that would pay that amount, you know that VDOT (or someone in power) would decrease it so that they can get more payers in the HOV/HOT lanes to increase revenues. Ultimately, these lanes will become congested. Like Maylo said, "...incentive to carpool diminishes with each knuckle-headed decision." gg Thanks for your response gg. I suspect you are right about being outnumbered by the single drivers because they have always outnumbered us in the past with respect to complaining to the state, etc. But, like, you, I will continue with the letters/e-mails... quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by gg [br]aalso, I did write to a bunch of people (politicians if you insist) that might possibly care about the issues concerning HOT. I received only one reply from a Mr. Pierce Homer, Deputy Secretary of Transportation for VDOT who was appointed by Governor Warner. Mr. Homer thanked me for my comments and assured me that my concerns would be "built into" all and every study of HOT lanes. aalso, I also agree with you that if politicians are bombarded with letters, they will be influenced and I'm glad to see that you intend to do so. Unfortunately, I think we're outnumbered by single drivers. Nevertheless, I intend to keep up with my efforts. gg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jah New Member 10 Posts Posted - 21 Feb 2003 : 15:04:13 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm with you guys who are writing letters. I'll do the same. It at least affords us a chance. If we stay silent, there is virtually no chance. USA Senior Member Member 52 Posts Posted - 21 Feb 2003 : 17:09:39 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Koch once tried imposing an $8 toll on single-occupant vehicles on all the bridges and tunnels into Manhattan (including the ones that have long been free). AAA sued and won. Virginia and Maryland probably cannot legally do what you describe because the law governing Interstate highways prohibited building interstates as toll roads (existing toll roads that became part of the system, like the Pennsylvania Turnpike, were grandfathered in). I guess I-395 was there prior to the Interstate era (it was VA-350), but who knows how the law applies. I imagine there might be a constitutional challenge as well insofar as the new tolls might interfere with interstate commerce (states cannot constitutionally place undue burdens on interstate commerce). I think tolling may be allowed when a highway is reconstructed if it's the only way to get the funding. VDOT's plans for rebuilding I-81 involve separate lanes for cars and trucks (like the New Jersey Turnpike) with tolls on at least the truck lanes. I know there are some federal laws on HOV lanes but I don't know what they are. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Arbo [br]Speaking of getting cars off the road, here's an interesting article about how they're solving the terrible congestion problem in London and elsewhere in Europe (http://www.msnbc.com/news/874804.asp?0cl=c1). Maybe VA and MD should make ALL the Interstates going "inside the beltway" into toll roads (say $10 for those cars with less than 3 people in them) and use the resulting $$ to improve mass transit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - USA on 21 Feb 2003 17:11:51 mirangus Average Member 48 Posts Posted - 24 Feb 2003 : 15:50:16 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would like very much to write to those that matter and voice my displeasure in this option. To whom do I write and where? Thanks!! speckd Starting Member 4 Posts Posted - 25 Feb 2003 : 10:14:06 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not sure where or what is 610? No if there were slug lines along the dulles corridor like at the loundoun county transit area (big bus lot where there is also parking) into CC or Pentagon - I would gladly take dulles toll to 66 (inside the beltway becomes HOV3) and get to work that way and pick up folks in CC and or the Pentagon. But I have yet to see such a slug line anywhere. USA Senior Member Member 52 Posts Posted - 26 Feb 2003 : 09:10:55 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I-66 is HOV-2 both inside and outside the Beltway, not HOV-3. That law was changed over eight years ago. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by speckd [br]I am not sure where or what is 610? No if there were slug lines along the dulles corridor like at the loundoun county transit area (big bus lot where there is also parking) into CC or Pentagon - I would gladly take dulles toll to 66 (inside the beltway becomes HOV3) and get to work that way and pick up folks in CC and or the Pentagon. But I have yet to see such a slug line anywhere. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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jerryclapham
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Joined: 20 May 2003 Location: va Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Posted: 09 Jun 2003 at 1:37pm |
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The HOV lanes at this time a running effectively and effiecntly. Now lets double or triple the number of cars in the HOV lanes that are carrying less people because there would be altneratives to picking up slugs or car pooling. In addition there will be bottleneckl on the HOV because of increased volume. (e.g. exit ramp to the Pentagon). This will defeat the whole purpose of the HOV lanes on 95/395. Once again some politican has gotten a bug up their butt about the HOV lane. Now they want to spend tax dollars to do a study on HOT lanes. VADOT did a study (cost$1.4 million) several years ago on the effects of lowering the HOV from 3 to 2 on 95. They were surprised when carpoolers and slugs came out in droves to tell them what a diaster it would be. VADOT will get the same conculting firms and hire people who never travel the 95/395 on a regular basis in rush hour. I think that everyone should start writing their elected officals and tell them to stop crap and put the money into new highways or back in oour pockets.
I also think that these alternative fuel cars are also a problem that needs to be address by legislation SOON before they start clogging the HOV Lanes. Jerry Jerry |
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Admin
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Posted: 10 Jun 2003 at 6:34am |
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Please post all messages regarding HOT in the thread called "HOT Lanes". This message thread has been locked from future postings in order to consolidate all comments into one thread!
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HOV to HOT Lanes
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