Clark/Shirley Steps Up to the Plate

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   In the past, the Sponge ignored Clark's I95/395 toll road proposal because it seemed less likely to move forward, as PRTC noted in its appraisal, than Fluor's proposal.  Fluor offered to build toll roads all the way to the 14th St. Bridge, while Clark's proposal was only going as far north as the Beltway.

	Now, however, Clark/Shirley has debuted "95Express", their all-the-way-to-DC proposal http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/I395-95ClarkShirleyRelease.pdf

	They promise (ahem) to continue "the HOV-3 concept of allowing 3-passenger vehicles, buses and emergency vehicles to travel in the corridor free at all times."  Nice to hear.  They note: "By adding additional lane capacity to the existing HOV network and actively managing prices, a free-flow experience for HOV users will be maintained."

	Fine.  Great.  OK.  Now, someone please tell me how they are going to do that?

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SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Clark/Shirley Steps Up to the Plate Posted: 09 Jun 2005 at 10:12am
	In the past, the Sponge ignored Clark's I95/395 toll road proposal because it seemed less likely to move forward, as PRTC noted in its appraisal, than Fluor's proposal. Fluor offered to build toll roads all the way to the 14th St. Bridge, while Clark's proposal was only going as far north as the Beltway. Now, however, Clark/Shirley has debuted "95Express", their all-the-way-to-DC proposal http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/I395-95ClarkShirleyRelease.pdf They promise (ahem) to continue "the HOV-3 concept of allowing 3-passenger vehicles, buses and emergency vehicles to travel in the corridor free at all times." Nice to hear. They note: "By adding additional lane capacity to the existing HOV network and actively managing prices, a free-flow experience for HOV users will be maintained." Fine. Great. OK. Now, someone please tell me how they are going to do that?

AveMaria Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote AveMaria Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 2005 at 4:22pm
	Perhaps they could make the expressway into three lanes -- then put up a 2'high steel barrier to separate the two HOT lanes and the single dedicated HOV lane. (( see diagram below )) The HOV lane would always be the inside lane. They could leave gaps in the barrier (wall) to allow the HOV folks to enter (merge over) and exit. Actually a 8' Jersey wall would be IDEAL -- that would eliminate the ability for folks to rubberneck! WHICH I LOATHE!!!!!! _________________________________________________________________ __________________ __________________________ ___________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - __________________ __________________________ ___________

Baz Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Baz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2005 at 6:17am
	Ave...dont quit your day job...

AveMaria Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote AveMaria Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2005 at 11:50am
	Hey Baz, this website has limited graphics capability. What, specifically, is wrong with my proposal? I'd appreciate your comments. [8D]

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2005 at 12:23pm
	For one thing, why should the ridesharers have to go down to one lane when we are already over-congested in two? Beside that, there is no room for an additional dividing wall: inside the Beltway, the three 11'-wide lanes proposed leave sub-minimum shoulders of 2' on one side and 9' on the other. No pull off room as it is. The lane width can't be reduced any more with another divider. The proposal calls for dozens of new on-and-off ramps. Segregating toll and HOV traffic by lane only leads to the ridiculous and dangerous situation found on I66 where cheating is so rampant the lanes should be labeled COV -- Cheater Occupied Vehicles. And how would you keep SOVs from sliding into the HOV lanes whenever they neared a Smarttag toll booth? You couldn't stop them, not on a rainy night in November. If we are hastily dismissive of your idea, Ave, forgive us. Like native Americans 100 years ago, we are left with no option but to fight; negotiation, compromise, alternatives... all are behind us now. We must simply oppose.

Baz Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Baz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jun 2005 at 7:29pm
	quote: Originally posted by AveMaria [br]Hey Baz, this website has limited graphics capability. What, specifically, is wrong with my proposal? I'd appreciate your comments. [8D] Its not the graphics....A 2 foot high steel barrier!? How many large trucks - even cars, wouldnt be able to see a short steel plate jutting from the pavement. Multiple accidents every day in HOV/HOT lanes. Thats what we need. Back to the drawing board on that suicidal plan...

AveMaria Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote AveMaria Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jun 2005 at 11:54am
	There's already a steel barrier up there now which is approximately 2 feet or so. Or would you prefer to call it a "guard rail"? Whatever you want to call them, I propose one also being used to separate HOV and HOT. You all can vent all you want by: - writing your opposition on bulletin boards such as "SAVE HOV" - showing your strength in numbers at townhall meetings - writing pleading letters and emails to local delegates but when it's all said and done, HOT WILL HAPPEN!! I'm only suggesting applying the tried and trusted rule of "If you cant beat 'em -- join 'em"! Resistence is futile. The time spent on b*tching about how bad and unfair it is, would be better spent devising a plan on how to make a bad situation benefit you. It may be minimal (compared to what it was before) but at least it's SOMETHING!! That my friend is how the Native Americans likely feel about being placed on reservations after all their land was stolen from them. They made the most they could out of a most unfortunate situation.

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2005 at 11:11am
	Yes, couldn't agree more, Ave. I am fighting a fight I know we're almost certain to lose. Unless we can switch people from their public stances (Environmental Defense, AAA, the local governments, and PRTC, etc.) we stand zero chance of halting this. Your plan, however, is not workable. For one thing, as I pointed out, we are already over capacity with two lanes and the current HOV load. Pushing us into a single lane is impossible. I've driven the single lane HOV in Houston and it has a full-size shoulder, otherwise you would be like a pea in a straw: one clog, and the whole road would shut down. Plus, if the car in front of you has a blowout or something, you would most likely plow right into it since there is no swerving room in your plan. OK. Enough of that business. You want an alternative? I've posted several. My personal favorite is to run the blasted toll roads 7 days a week, but turn the toll booths OFF during HOV commuting hours and run it just the way it is now: HOV3+ : No SOV's. In a few years, make it HOV4. But that ain't gonna happen: most of the money is to be made during the commuting hours when the price will be highest.