Booting hybrids from carpool lanes slows all

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   From the Los Angeles Times Tuesday, October 11, 2011, page B5. Article by Ronald D. White (ron.white@latimes.com).

	"Booting hybrids from carpool lanes slows all, study says. Since low-emission vehicles lost that privilege, speeds have slowed for everyone."

	The article references a US Berkeley study from their Institute of Transportation Studies, written by Michael Cassidy and Kitae Jang. The LA Times article concludes with:

	"'Our results show that everyone is worse off with the program's ending,' Cassidy said.

	'Drivers of low-emission vehicles are worse off, drivers in the regular lanes are worse off and drivers in the carpool lanes are worse off. Nobody wins.'"

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NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Booting hybrids from carpool lanes slows all Posted: 03 Nov 2011 at 1:49pm
	From the Los Angeles Times Tuesday, October 11, 2011, page B5. Article by Ronald D. White (ron.white@latimes.com). "Booting hybrids from carpool lanes slows all, study says. Since low-emission vehicles lost that privilege, speeds have slowed for everyone." The article references a US Berkeley study from their Institute of Transportation Studies, written by Michael Cassidy and Kitae Jang. The LA Times article concludes with: "'Our results show that everyone is worse off with the program's ending,' Cassidy said. 'Drivers of low-emission vehicles are worse off, drivers in the regular lanes are worse off and drivers in the carpool lanes are worse off. Nobody wins.'"

ETC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote ETC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Nov 2011 at 6:22am
	Not to poke a troll.... Felt this story needed to be reviewed and found the previous statement needs to be taken in context with the rest of the article: "Among other things, the report's authors found that the additional vehicles in the regular traffic lanes slowed speeds substantially. That slower traffic made it more difficult for the carpool drivers to move in and out of the HOV lanes, slowing them down as well. The report's authors were Michael Cassidy, UC Berkeley professor of civil and environmental engineering, and Kitae Jang, a doctoral student in civil and environmental engineering." Ok, California has HOV lanes that aren't separated from regular lanes like 66. There's no way removing several thousand SOVs from the 95/395 HOV would reduce traffic.

Dale H Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 18 May 2009 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dale H Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Nov 2011 at 8:03am
	Did the article say what percentage of hybrid drivers began picking up riders so they could continue to use the carpool lanes? Dale H

ETC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote ETC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Nov 2011 at 9:03am
	Here's the full article. Article said there were 85,000 cars that lost the exemption and were now driving the main lanes, causing further congestion. The HOV lane (single lane)slowed down because carpoolers were having a hard time getting to/from the HOV lane. It is more an argument for separated HOV lanes like 95/395 not for hybrid exemption. It does seem that the hybrids didn't form car pools. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/10/kicking-hybrids-from-carpool-lanes-slows-everyone-down.html

ETC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote ETC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Nov 2011 at 11:15am
	This is probably a better article about hybrid impact: http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/9298/whos-causing-congestion-on-i-66-hybrids-or-scofflaws/

bnvus Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote bnvus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Nov 2011 at 3:17pm
	Well since hybrids get better gas mileage at slower speeds, think how much money they saved. They should have picked up riders. [:D]

Dale H Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 18 May 2009 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dale H Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Nov 2011 at 7:44am
	So, it appears the slow down was caused by a large number of hybrid drivers using the normal lanes instead of picking up riders. I suppose we are expected to conclude that it is advantageous to all of us to continue to let single passenger hybrids use the HOV lanes. If the HOV lanes are underutilized, any strategy that shifts a controlled number of cars from the normal lanes to the HOV lanes should improve traffic flow. There is nothing special about hybrids. It makes just as much sense to allow Buick drivers to use the HOV lanes. We could have "Toyota Thursdays" where everyone with a Toyota is allowed in the HOV lanes, then "Ford Fridays". Or anyone whose license number ends in a "5" gets to use the HOV lanes on Wednesdays. No, I am not serious, but my point is there is nothing special about hybrids. Dale H

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 2011 at 4:47pm
	quote: Originally posted by Dale H So, it appears the slow down was caused by a large number of hybrid drivers using the normal lanes instead of picking up riders. I suppose we are expected to conclude that it is advantageous to all of us to continue to let single passenger hybrids use the HOV lanes. If the HOV lanes are underutilized, any strategy that shifts a controlled number of cars from the normal lanes to the HOV lanes should improve traffic flow. There is nothing special about hybrids. It makes just as much sense to allow Buick drivers to use the HOV lanes. We could have "Toyota Thursdays" where everyone with a Toyota is allowed in the HOV lanes, then "Ford Fridays". Or anyone whose license number ends in a "5" gets to use the HOV lanes on Wednesdays. No, I am not serious, but my point is there is nothing special about hybrids. Dale H Quite wrong. As I'm sure you are aware, the use of carpools to use the express lanes came about as an exemption back in the day. It's just been so long since that happened that some have forgotten that. And, as you are also likely aware, hybrids have about 20% of the pollution as conventional vehicles (sedan to sedan; if you compare to SUV's, the hybrids have a MUCH better advantage).

Pele Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 27 May 2008 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pele Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Nov 2011 at 5:21am
	quote: Originally posted by NoSUV And, as you are also likely aware, hybrids have about 20% of the pollution as conventional vehicles (sedan to sedan; if you compare to SUV's, the hybrids have a MUCH better advantage). You factoring in the fuel is cost to run the equipment at the strip mine where they dug up the Nickel for your NiMH battery packs? How about the cargo ship that moved the nickel from Canada to Japan for battery pack manufacturing? Also, have you factored in the replacement battery pack? Both my Honda CRX and Ford pickup are from the late 80's with over 300,000 miles on them each... I guarantee you'll go through at least two battery packs in 20 years. Carbon footprint envy is BS. ------------------------- Times to beat: Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)

ETC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote ETC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Nov 2011 at 11:20am
	Hybrid owners will not be keeping their cars to 100,000 miles. They'll be trading it in before the hybrid battery expires to avoid the $3000 replacement cost. Also the hybrids have two batteries: the regular car battery and the rechargeable one. And they have to change their brake pads more frequently because of the charging method.