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   my, my, raymond - nothing constructive to add? Really hard to challenge facts, isn't it. Try reading the string before you put up a moronic post.

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NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 2006 at 4:49pm
	my, my, raymond - nothing constructive to add? Really hard to challenge facts, isn't it. Try reading the string before you put up a moronic post.

n/a Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote n/a Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 2006 at 3:56pm
	OMG, have we resurrected this insane discussion? Where to begin... How about this: NoSUV is truely insane! Proven not only by the total idiocy of these arguments supporting hybrid hypocracy and radical mass transit communism at the expense of the simple, free, effective carpooling/slugging/HOV solution (which, by the way, works just fine for those who have seen the light), but also by continuing to argue the same points that have already proven a failure to convert anyone in this forum and expecting different results. Our sane arguments only entertain the crazy.

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 2006 at 2:30pm
	quote: Originally posted by Luddite [br]I'm all for HOV-40 - except hybrids must still go solo. Good thing our General Ass-embly is looking out for...solo drivers. Yeah, that's efficiency. Should be HOV-40 with hybrid exemption. It's a super non-taxpayer subsidized method to decrease the global warming trend. If we ever get to the congestion tipping point with the express lanes with only hybrids and mass transit, then back to carpools, both formal and informal. You'll know it's working when the commuter lots are full of parked hybrids.

darkprime Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote darkprime Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 2006 at 8:04am
	I-66 is an artery and is already used by many of those driving from the west into DC, but it cannot help anyone who lives say south of Springfield.

Luddite Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Luddite Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Dec 2006 at 5:17pm
	I'm all for HOV-40 - except hybrids must still go solo. Good thing our General Ass-embly is looking out for...solo drivers. Yeah, that's efficiency.

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Dec 2006 at 3:52pm
	NoSB - if it works so well, why do we have the 3rd worst congestion in the nation? As I said earlier, we need to know what others are doing that makes it so much better for them. One common denominator might be that they require HOV-40; our HOV-3 is puny in comparison. Also, you forgot I-66 as an artery. Shall we also compare pollution stats? Global warming isn't a fad, you know.

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Dec 2006 at 2:58pm
	Even given equal number and potentially limited roads due to the lake (the reality may prove otherwise), we can easily see that for the N/S commute for NoVA there are essentially only 2 routes (I-95 plus variants and Route 1). One would think a more equalizing approach to compare the two areas would be to normalize the comparisons and then perform the analysis. Houston has an amazing traffic problem, but for no more the an hour or so a day in each direction. They have options. This region has developed options (HOV being a primary one) that alleviate some of the problems. It just amazes me that any sane person would consider undoing, to any extent, A contributory solution that WORKS. If one doesn't have an agenda in developing and expressing one's assertions, one quickly comes to a well-measured response and input in this dialogue. If one has an agenda, all data will be skewed in order to support the desired agenda. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Dec 2006 at 2:55pm
	dark - as sponge likes to say, it's hard to make a comparison. Just like we have some folks who drive from Richmond, Chicago has people from Milwaukee and Gary coming in. Others, like here, walk to work. Also, we have a beltway, so people going from Richmond to Baltimore don't have to go though DC; no such luck if you are going from Milwaukee to Gary. I have a hunch that you might be correct on the population growth, but the swing would have to be > 1.5 million. I'm pretty sure that NOVA hasn't increased by that much, but I don't know about the Washington-Baltimore metro area -- but I doubt it's by enough to make a huge difference in the stats.

darkprime Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote darkprime Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Dec 2006 at 2:36pm
	I don't have anything off hand to support this, but the population in the DC region has exploded since 1998 and I thought Chicago has had very minor population increases. Today I wouldn't be surprised if the DC region is more densely populated than chicago. Do you happen to know the average distance someone travels to get to work to chicago versus that for the dc region?

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Dec 2006 at 1:52pm
	Sponge, Getting the stats you request is a bit of a challenge. This is the closest I've gotten so far to compare apples to apples - understanding, of course, your assertation that we are unique, just like everyone else. http://www.census.gov/prod/2000pubs/p25-1133.pdf This provides on Table 2 a comparison of Metropolitan Areas. Chicago-Gary-Kenosha at 8.8 million folks and Washington-Baltimore at 7.3 million. More people, less congestion. Did I mention that there's a big ol' lake in their region that makes it hard to commute through? And as Luddite has helped me to establish, there is no beltway to reduce traffic there, as we have here. Don't like the figures because they are inconvenient? What a surprise!