HOT question: tolls during non-rush hour

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   mroyal,  I think that making separate HOT and HOV entrance lanes will definitely make it possible to not charge HOVs, that is, you don't necessarily need high-tech means to make that distinction (don't give those contractors that idea).  However, I can see them eventually start charging the "free loading" HOVs because they don't generate revenue.  They can charge a reduced toll for HOVs but it still ruins the whole slugging system.  So, in the end, they win unless HOT is STOPPPED NOW.  See you at the:

	September 21, 2005

	Ferlazzo Auditorium

	Prince William County 

	15941 Donald Curtis Drive

	Woodbridge, VA. 22193

	NOTE: The September 21 meeting is planned for public comments. (copied from shirons HOT Lanes Discussion)

	Goober

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goober Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote goober Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Aug 2005 at 4:06pm
	mroyal, I think that making separate HOT and HOV entrance lanes will definitely make it possible to not charge HOVs, that is, you don't necessarily need high-tech means to make that distinction (don't give those contractors that idea). However, I can see them eventually start charging the "free loading" HOVs because they don't generate revenue. They can charge a reduced toll for HOVs but it still ruins the whole slugging system. So, in the end, they win unless HOT is STOPPPED NOW. See you at the: September 21, 2005 Ferlazzo Auditorium Prince William County 15941 Donald Curtis Drive Woodbridge, VA. 22193 NOTE: The September 21 meeting is planned for public comments. (copied from shirons HOT Lanes Discussion) Goober

mroyal Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote mroyal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Aug 2005 at 9:44am
	Yea, I'm not arguing in support of HOT. I don't see anything positive in it for the current HOVers. I just took the sponge challenge to provide a way to enforce (sortof) HOV and SOV in the same lanes. Good luck in your battles. I hope you win the war. Kindest Regards, mroyal

AveMaria Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote AveMaria Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Aug 2005 at 10:52am
	HOT is a reality! I had my head sawed off on an earlier post when I suggested that if the proposal calls for constructing three lanes -- dedicate two lanes to HOT and one lane to HOV with some type of 3'(barrier) structure which separates the two lanes. HOV lanes having only left lane entrance/exits and HOT having only RIGHT lane entrance/exits. If someone gets sarcastic with me, I swear on my dead dog's grave I will, I will...[:(!]

AveMaria Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote AveMaria Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Aug 2005 at 10:55am
	Oh, and I do plan to be at the meeting on 21 Sep b/c this directly effects my lifestyle.

goober Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote goober Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Aug 2005 at 3:00pm
	quote: Originally posted by mroyal [br]Good luck in your battles. I hope you win the war. Does this mean that you won't join in the battle? Goober

mroyal Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote mroyal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Aug 2005 at 4:20pm
	I am willing to send electronic and postal mail to my representatives, but I get quite bored at hearings (sorry). From my experience and conversations with staffers, I believe e-mail is largely ignored (it's more of a poll). If you really want to communicate, send postal mail and on the front print "Urgent and Confidential" Kindest Regards, mroyal

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Aug 2005 at 4:23pm
	The central issue about HOT is whether HOV will remain free. Reduced fare is not enough, it has to be as it is now: free. Both Fluor and Clark have proposed for I95/395 a multi-access, automated, full-speed tolling system that will connect to a larger region-wide HOT network. The HOT lanes would run from Massaponax to Fairfax to Reston to Manassas to Dulles, etc and so on. Fluor signed a contract just a few months ago to build HOT lanes on the Beltway, the first step in the regional plan. As far as I can learn, no toll road system of similar size or complexity has ever been done before. Not in the US, not in Australia, not anywhere. But I think Fluor and Clark could do it; they could build the world's most advanced toll road network, and make it work. What they can't do, and their silence on the issue is proof, is let HOV ride for free on the system. Want some proof? Well, look for the next Sponge-sermon.

SuzAnne Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 May 2005 Location: NY Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SuzAnne Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Aug 2005 at 8:14am
	Sponge; You have proof. SR-91 in CA.

gmugrad Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote gmugrad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Aug 2005 at 9:38am
	Yeah we make so much in DC that is why so many of us live out in stafford. Hello the prices are through the roof here and normal people don't make that much. The local jobs pay dirt and so that is why so many of us work in DC and slug. Open our wallets my butt. Hot lanes won't work. The only thing that will work is getting the DC companies to open their eyes and allow for telecommuting centers in fredericksburg.

goober Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote goober Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Aug 2005 at 10:47am
	Does including a separate HOT and HOV ENTRANCE lanes make it possible to keep HOV free? Sponge says that "THERE WILL BE NO FREE HOV BECAUSE THERE IS NO TECHNOLOGY TO DO IT!" However, you should not be required to use Smarttag if you have an HOV-3. You don't need to "PUT A PERSON ON EVERY OFFRAMP 24/7, ESPECIALLY THE HIGH-SPEED SLIP-RAMPS", just a person in an "HOV only entrance" for the duration of HOV hours. However, a problem will arise when the decision makers start to charge HOVers, like they did in California, SR-91 HOT. The contractors won't guarantee that HOV will be free because they want a way to save their asses in the event that a substantial number in the HOT lanes are HOVs (they don't generate revenue). Is it unrealistic to demand that if they build HOT, HOV will be free forever? Goober