Hybrid Cost Differential

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   This is especially for Scott.  You keep harping on an $8,000 cost differential for a hybrid. If you copy and paste the following URL in your address bar, you will see that a hybrid Toyota Camry is only $4,000 more than the cost of a comparably equipped conventional Camry.  Now, you get a $2,600 federal tax rebate for buying the Hybrid Camry so that leaves you with a $1400 additional cost for the hybrid.

	http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/default.aspx?c=0&n=3&i=0&tb=0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&dt=0&v=t102538&v=t102582

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
jimbob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote jimbob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Hybrid Cost Differential Posted: 19 Oct 2006 at 2:59pm
	This is especially for Scott. You keep harping on an $8,000 cost differential for a hybrid. If you copy and paste the following URL in your address bar, you will see that a hybrid Toyota Camry is only $4,000 more than the cost of a comparably equipped conventional Camry. Now, you get a $2,600 federal tax rebate for buying the Hybrid Camry so that leaves you with a $1400 additional cost for the hybrid. http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/default.aspx?c=0&n=3&i=0&tb=0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&dt=0&v=t102538&v=t102582

scottt Members Profile Find Members Posts Senior Slug Joined: 12 May 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 106	Post Options Post Reply Quote scottt Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Oct 2006 at 9:39am
	You haven't been reading all the threads. I paid $15,500 for my Mazda 6i. The cheapest Toyota Prius model is $22,795.00. That's a $7,295 price difference. After taxes and such, I figured it would be about $8k difference between the two cars. I'm not compairing hybrid vs non hybrid models (IE Toyota Highlander V6 vs. Highlander Hybrid). Even with all the tax incentives (which for Toyota just decreased) it still takes years to make up for the difference in Hybrid prices. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/116513/article.html

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Oct 2006 at 9:58am
	High Bread [:D] dickboyd@aol.com

n/a Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote n/a Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Oct 2006 at 1:33pm
	Not to mention the other costs. Such as: Opportunity cost: hybrid manufacturers mis-lead consumers to believe that they have taken positive steps in addressing our nations fossil fuel/ecological/economical problems, which leads to complacency and inactivity on the part of consumers in finding real solutions. Bottom line: hybrids still burn fossil fuel, and they use other toxic elements in their batteries for short term energy storage. While hybrid buyers are lead to believe that they are acting green, in fact best case, they are doing nothing positive, worst case, they are adding to a toxic eco-soup and delaying action toward real solutions. Economic cost: eco-minded consumers are mis-lead into thinking that the hybrid premium is an investment into eco-solutions, when instead it goes straight into the pockets of hybrid manufacturer shareholders. And what about long-term maintanence costs to the consumer? Sure, the manufacturers paint a rosey picture now, while they are fighting for product adoption and grabbing market share, but what about in a few years when they start shorting out? Ecological costs: while we know the eco-costs associated with present day fossil fuel technologies, hybrids present a future with a host of ecological unknowns, such as, what about the batteries and all the toxins contained within, not to mention the sheer mass of the battery in each car - several hundred pounds each. Sure the manufacturer's websites claim a high % of the elements are recyclable, but they want to sell cars, and Toyota will likely farm out the reclaimation to a third party. So who will be responsible in a few years when they start dying? Big ???s. Hybrids are just another product to sell, not a solution. Hybrids are a band aid at best, and at worst, they are a distraction from the problems, a contribution to problems, and a demotivator to action towards solutions.

Hybrid lover Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hybrid lover Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Oct 2006 at 4:56pm
	No excuses and no apologies. I have carpooled, picked up slugs, and "cheated" on the HOV. My car wore out and I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid to buy my way onto the HOV. No concern for the enviroment just because it would legally allow me to go without carpooling or slugging. I paid $2000 more than for a regular Civic, get 43 MPG average, and cut an hour off my commute each way. I have gotten almost 4 years of HOV travel legally, 3 years of tax cuts and a huge savings in gas costs. Even it Hybrids are stopped now, I have made my money. But I have learned I like my Hybrid for its cost savings, low maintenance, and I like a car I would never before have considered. The incentives to get me to try a Hybrid worked as the government and car manufacturers wished. I will buy another or improved version when the time comes, HOV or not. If HOV for Hybrids is stopped, I will vary my time to get on just as HOV time stops at night and get off just before it goes in affect in the morning. Pick up slugs? No, was a very nasty experience and extra time. Hot lane. I would do it. Cheat again, possibly. Never got caught, low fines if caught and no more illegal than speeding on the HOV like most carpools and slug pools. Those who don't like to hear this will call me a troll as they do to most comments they don't like. But facts are Hybrid SOV is currently legal, less of a problem than cheaters, a cheap way to drive, and an incentive for car manufacturers to make more Hybrids or better Hybrids. So now start throwing your eggs. SOV because I legally can- Slug because you choose to.

Luddite Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Luddite Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 2006 at 12:12pm
	Hybrid Lover, Thanks for your post, but you haven't shared anything we all haven't known for a long time. Your words don't change the fact that the hybrid exemption killed hov. Respectfully submitted.

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 2006 at 3:45pm
	Hybrid lover, Are you actually buying a new hybrid each year? Otherwise, it wouldn't be legal to claim a tax benefit for three straight years, as you claim...

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 2006 at 3:56pm
	quote: Originally posted by raymond [br]Not to mention the other costs. Such as: Opportunity cost: hybrid manufacturers mis-lead consumers to believe that they have taken positive steps in addressing our nations fossil fuel/ecological/economical problems, which leads to complacency and inactivity on the part of consumers in finding real solutions. Bottom line: hybrids still burn fossil fuel, and they use other toxic elements in their batteries for short term energy storage. While hybrid buyers are lead to believe that they are acting green, in fact best case, they are doing nothing positive, worst case, they are adding to a toxic eco-soup and delaying action toward real solutions. Economic cost: eco-minded consumers are mis-lead into thinking that the hybrid premium is an investment into eco-solutions, when instead it goes straight into the pockets of hybrid manufacturer shareholders. And what about long-term maintanence costs to the consumer? Sure, the manufacturers paint a rosey picture now, while they are fighting for product adoption and grabbing market share, but what about in a few years when they start shorting out? Ecological costs: while we know the eco-costs associated with present day fossil fuel technologies, hybrids present a future with a host of ecological unknowns, such as, what about the batteries and all the toxins contained within, not to mention the sheer mass of the battery in each car - several hundred pounds each. Sure the manufacturer's websites claim a high % of the elements are recyclable, but they want to sell cars, and Toyota will likely farm out the reclaimation to a third party. So who will be responsible in a few years when they start dying? Big ???s. Hybrids are just another product to sell, not a solution. Hybrids are a band aid at best, and at worst, they are a distraction from the problems, a contribution to problems, and a demotivator to action towards solutions. raymond - just how many times do we have to tell you that the battery issue which you quote is NOT an issue? I know you tend to get stuck on falsehoods, but try to let go of this one so you don't seem so moronic.

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Oct 2006 at 4:14pm
	That's right raymond, the used batteries vanish into thin air when they end their service life! Don't you know that by now?

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Oct 2006 at 4:46pm
	quote: Originally posted by MDC [br]That's right raymond, the used batteries vanish into thin air when they end their service life! Don't you know that by now? Wow, MDC - I thought you actually read and understood all of the previous facts brought up on this board concerning batteries - not just from Toyota, but from the battery industy as well. I believe that you are better than that MDC.