Is now the time to propose HOT alternatives

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   Just wanted to tap into the collective brainpower to get your opinions on whether this is the time to put forth a set of possible alternatives to what is about to be approved.  In other words, things like restricting 395 to HOV only - no tolls north of Springfield. There have been others as well, such as SpongeBob's proposal that during rush hour keep things as-is with no SOVs but charge tolls during non rush, etc.  

	I believe the final final decision is in January, so there is still some time.

	Comments?

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Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Is now the time to propose HOT alternatives Posted: 04 Nov 2005 at 5:24pm
	Just wanted to tap into the collective brainpower to get your opinions on whether this is the time to put forth a set of possible alternatives to what is about to be approved. In other words, things like restricting 395 to HOV only - no tolls north of Springfield. There have been others as well, such as SpongeBob's proposal that during rush hour keep things as-is with no SOVs but charge tolls during non rush, etc. I believe the final final decision is in January, so there is still some time. Comments?

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Nov 2005 at 7:12am
	Bob, The reason HOT has such momentum is because the majority of drivers do not participate in car pools or slugging. Any alternative proposal has to find a way to scratch that itch. I'd recommend assuming that the SOV drivers: pay taxes are somewhat literate vote have money to spend on campaigns are not going to give up driving unless it becomes financially expedient.

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Nov 2005 at 1:22pm
	NoSUV is mostly right, here. (See, I agree with him sometimes [:)]) The voters in the SOV's in the regular lanes appear to outnumber the voters in the HOV lanes. But VDOT's year-old study showed that more people (those are the things inside the V's) are in the HOV lanes than are in the regular lanes. So who ought to have the political clout? Turns out it is Stafford and Fredericksburg! They want toll lanes stretched to their doors to give them a piece of the booming housing market. But today PFrank told me that Fluor's October presentation showed their plan: add ONE LANE to the side of the existing regular lanes from Dumfries to Massaponax. Did anyone else think they were actually going to build a two lane toll road in the median strip? What a rook job on Stafford and Fredericksburg politicians. Fluor must be laughing its collective asses off. (But they have lots of practice at that.)

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Nov 2005 at 2:32pm
	I still don't understand how they are going to get three lanes where the HOV lanes go under the beltway. There is barely room for two lanes there now(with no shoulder). A very large percentage of the existing HOV lanes have less space than what three full size lanes will take up. What are they going to do, have the speed limit at 50MPH through those stretches due to the substandard lanes?

DC2RV Members Profile Find Members Posts Master Slug Joined: 28 Feb 2002 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 1014	Post Options Post Reply Quote DC2RV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Nov 2005 at 7:39pm
	Back to the original question and what options exist other than HOT - Current HOV lanes become through lanes with no exit or access ramps inside the beltway; regular lanes become local lanes. Note - I do not advocate this, it's just a possibility no one here has mentioned. I suspect that would lead to a "free for all", congestion and mayhem on both sets of lanes, killing carpooling and slugging, but providing the freedom non-conformists have advocated by their non-adherence to the current options available to them.

omaryak Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote omaryak Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Nov 2005 at 6:30pm
	According to VDOT statistics, on any given day the HOV lanes move twice as many people as the regular lanes. While there are more SOV voters in general, the I-395 corridor itself gets more HOV traffic than non-HOV. I think any HOT proposal should apply only to new lanes, not existing infrastructure that has already been paid for by taxpayer dollars. Existing infrastructure should remain free and unrestricted during off-peak hours. Really, the state should be able to fund HOV lanes to Fredericksburg on its own, but no one seems to be willing to pay more in taxes to fix the funding shortfall. The choice seems to be between taxes and tolls.

CallmeMrSlug Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote CallmeMrSlug Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Nov 2005 at 11:55pm
	The bottom line is your local leaders took a payoff to support HOT in campaign contributions. By the time its built, they won't be here, and you literally will be stuck with the bill...

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 2005 at 4:50pm
	quote: Originally posted by JoanA [br]Examiner Editorial - HOT lanes get another green light: "Hopefully, when underutilized HOV lanes are converted to a region-wide network of HOT lanes, Shucet will get credit for launching the change." Read more lies ... HOV on 395 under used mabe there are not enough Lexus drivers using the lanes... http://DCExaminer-Hates-HOV3.notlong.com More revisionist history about the origin of slugging? There were slugs before the local bus companies fell apart. There were slugs before the reversible lanes. There were more formal car pools also. What was new was van pools. Chrysler, 3M, Texaco, Shell and Oak Ridge National Labs as well as several military bases were the origin of van pools. Virginia did not want Shirley Highway. Virginia wanted the corridor to stay under the control of the federal government. Even the FHWA history books are being rewritten to include erroneous comments about the origins of HOV. The original design was to have ALL lanes free flow. Not capacity flow, FREE flow. dickboyd@aol.com

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Nov 2005 at 2:40pm
	OK, so I read that garbage and raised my blood pressure for no reason. I mean, really, I've lived here over 15 years and never heard of the "Examiner". Who cares what they think? Nobody's listening to their two-bit little rag. The Post, the Potomac News, WTOP, WRC-TV4 and the other three TV news outlets... that is about 98% of the news market in DC. The other 2% is in the second-rate Moonie paper. "Aging rocker", for crying out loud. How apt! How on-target! Touche, you geniuses! What skill with the pen you have, what devastating comparisons you make. Why, I fall back astounded at your perspicacity, your wit, your bon-mot-ability! They have vanquished us utterly, dear Slugs, with the perfect, perfect metaphor. Send in the clowns. Turn off the amps.

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Nov 2005 at 3:02pm
	quote: Originally posted by Bob [br]Just wanted to tap into the collective brainpower to get your opinions on whether this is the time to put forth a set of possible alternatives to what is about to be approved. In other words, things like restricting 395 to HOV only - no tolls north of Springfield. There have been others as well, such as SpongeBob's proposal that during rush hour keep things as-is with no SOVs but charge tolls during non rush, etc. I believe the final final decision is in January, so there is still some time. Comments? Meeting Financial Obligations �The Governors take this action mindful of our obligation to assure the financial integrity of the nation�s postal system.� Statement, by U.S Postal System Board of Governor�s in announcing 5.4% increase in postage effective January 8, 2006 The Commonwealth of Virginia is charged with maintaining the integrity and meeting the needs of the state�s transportation system. In January 1987, the last time the Commonwealth increased transportation taxes and fees, first class postage was 22-cents, the state gas tax 17.5-cents per gallon and the federal gas tax 9.1-cents per gallon. In January 2006, first class postage will by 39-cents (77% increase) and the federal gasoline tax will be 18.4 �cents per gallon (102% increase), while Virginia�s gas tax will still be 17.5 cents per gallon, its sales tax dedicated to transportation will still be .5% and the vehicular sales tax will still be 3% just as they were in 1987 � despite increases in population (20% ), registered vehicles (53%), and miles of daily travel (79%). In January 2006, the cost of one first class stamp (39-cents) will be greater than the combined federal and state gas tax (35.9-cents). After 20 years, the time for the Governor and General Assembly to get serious about meeting the state�s financial obligation to transportation is long over-due. Contact Info The Alliance Alert is a free online update on regional transportation issues and public involvement opportunities provided by the Northern Virginia Transportation Alliance. For more information on regional transportation issues and NVTA, please visit our website at http://www.nvta.org/. Top Northern Virginia Transportation Alliance P.O. Box 6149 McLean, Virginia 22106-6149 tel 703-883-1830 fax 703-883-1850 http://www.nvta.org/ dickboyd@aol.com