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swichowski View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Nov 2003 at 8:11am
lanes proposal would be costly

By EDIE GROSS


Date published: 11/21/2003

Tolls, extension for I-95 offered

A consortium of road builders is prepared to spend between $400 million and $500 million to widen existing high-occupancy-vehicle lanes in Northern Virginia and extend them to the Fredericksburg area.

The proposal, submitted to the Virginia Department of Transportation in September and made public this week, pledges that state and federal money will not be needed to build the project.

However, the proposal does disclose that VDOT may be asked to pay some of the costs of purchasing right of way and moving utility lines in the project's path.

"We've got a good, educated guess about the costs of right of way and utilities. If it costs more than that, we're asking VDOT to pick that up," said Garry Palleschi, a spokesman for Shirley Contracting Co., one of the firms involved in the proposal. "It could be zero."

According to the proposal, VDOT could also be asked to pitch in some money for enforcement of the rules and toll collection on the new facility, though dollar figures have not been made public yet.

If built, the lanes down the middle of Interstate 95 would serve a dual purpose: They would operate as regular HOV lanes for motorists carrying the required number of occupants, and they would be toll lanes for those carrying fewer than three people.

Motorists driving by themselves or with one other person could have access to the so-called High-Occupancy Toll lanes, or HOT lanes, for a price. That fee would vary, depending on what the demand for those lanes was at the time.

Once the HOT lanes reached a certain capacity, they would be closed to any more traffic.

In July the state agreed to work with private firm Fluor Daniel, which proposed building HOT lanes along Interstate 495 from the Springfield Interchange to the Dulles Toll Road.

The latest proposal, put forth by Clark Construction Group, Shirley Contracting Co. and Koch Performance Roads, is the first to include the Fredericksburg area.

The group's plan was offered under the state's Public-Private Transportation Act, which allows companies to submit transportation projects unsolicited, especially if they're willing to shoulder most of the financial burden.

The act is designed to move projects along more quickly by allowing the private sector to finance and build roads. The Clark-Shirley-Koch team has said that it could finish its HOV/HOT-lanes project by March 2009.

If approved by the state, the firms would widen the existing HOV section to three lanes from the Springfield Interchange to State Route 234 in Dumfries. Then all three lanes would be extended down to Interstate 95's U.S. 17 exit in Stafford, at mile marker 133.

The tolls collected would be used to pay off the debt from the road's construction and to pay for toll operations, according to the proposal. But it goes on to suggest that if toll revenues are lower than expected, VDOT may be asked to pay some toll-operation and enforcement costs.

VDOT would own the three-lane facility and maintain it, though Koch Performance Roads would take care of routine maintenance during the first 20 years.

VDOT has posted the proposal on its Web site, virginiadot.org. Other companies that would like to offer a competing plan have until March 17, 2004, to do so.

All proposals go through an extensive review process to see whether the firms are qualified to design, build and pay for the projects. Localities affected by the projects also are given an opportunity to comment. The entire process can take up to a year to complete.

To reach EDIE GROSS: 540/374-5428 egross@freelancestar.com

Date published: 11/21/2003

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SlugBuddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2003 at 10:20am
I thought that proposal was determined to be a very bad idea and now they are talking about it again?!?! They spent $1M dollars on a survey to determine whether tolls for the HOV would work and the survey determined it wouldn't so I wonder why they keep harping on the idea. VDOT must enjoy throwing away money, money that could have been put towards extending the HOV to Fredericksburg and if the state police would ticket violators more often, they would have even more money towards extending the HOV. Especially since the cost of the ticket goes up the more violations people have.

Opening the HOV to people who are willing to pay a toll is the worst idea I've ever heard. What about one of the main reasons for mass transit and slugging, environmental impact? What about VDOT's goal of getting less vehicles on the road? I thought that was the whole point of HOV. If they pass this toll idea, then slugging will die and there will be huge economic impacts to the area because I for one and many others will not commute under those conditions. Any of us who will be impacted by this should band together to let our feelings be known to VDOT.
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cdatkins View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cdatkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2003 at 10:36am
Like I said a few months ago:

These developers are bound and determined to make a buck off the public, whether we like it or even need the additional roads, etc.

I sound like a populist...
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tdar20 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tdar20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2003 at 12:08pm
Make a buck off the public?? Well, getting the hOV lanes extended is not going to be free. I may be the only person in this forum to agree with the proposal but I also believe that is it a cost of doing business in N.Va. The growth in this area is not going to stop anytime soon and our tax dollars are already maxed out. So, that being said if you want to use the HOV lanes and you do not have three in your car then you pay for the right to dirve there. Sounds like a win-win situation for me. It is a dream to think that VDOT is actually going to build any type of extension to the existing HOV lanes.
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Bob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2003 at 12:36pm
Yes it sounds great to me too. First they come in and tear up our existing HOV lane. We have to deal with construction, etc. for years. Then they make all the lanes smaller and take away a shoulder. Then they let everyone onto the lane willing to spend a few bucks. HOV inside the Beltway will remain 2 lanes. This will cause gridlock from Lorton to the Pentagon. You are advocating something that will kill slugging in my opinon
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cdatkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2003 at 4:15pm
Logic suggests that the growth in the area should "pay its way" for roads, schools, etc.

New people pay more taxes, available for things like widening HOV lanes.

The only possible hole in this theory is if the tax base is set up such that new people don't pay taxes to support their own use of roads and schools. I haven't seen anything to suggest this is the case, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mycroftt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2003 at 7:37am
The fallacy behind the HOT proposals is that there is unused capacity on the HOV lanes. I ride the HOV lanes every day and I have not observed any unused capacity. Rarely a day goes by that we do not come to a complete stop at least a couple of times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MDC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2003 at 8:54am
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
[br]The fallacy behind the HOT proposals is that there is unused capacity on the HOV lanes. I ride the HOV lanes every day and I have not observed any unused capacity. Rarely a day goes by that we do not come to a complete stop at least a couple of times.



I think the reason some people say there is "unused" capacity, is that there are off-peak times for HOV. I don't think there's as much volume between 8-9 AM, and 3:30-4:30 PM as there is other times.

I agree with you. There certainly is no room for growth in volume without creating substantially longer delays.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tdar20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2003 at 9:30am
Bob.......Kill slugging?? I hardly think so. Slugging has been around for quite some time and I dont think it is going anywhere. And what is wrong with a differing opinion? So this is a pro slugging website......open up your imagination and think out of the box a little and explore new ideas. Play them out a little to see what actually may happen before you bash them without any real facts. As it stands now the HOV lanes are almost to capacity, somethign will have to be done to help out eventually.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deaspy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2003 at 10:11am
I have to agree with tdar20.

I want the extension to F'burg at any cost. It will have to be better than the way it is now. If we wait on VDOT it wont happen until gridlock is allready in place (close now). I say build it now and see what happens...

John
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